Lee Navy headspace

[Kragrifle]

Unfortunately there is no forum for the Lee Navy and the Krag forum is as close as I can get. These rifles should probably never be fired, but a headspace check would be required to even consider pulling the trigger on a loaded chamber. Does anyone out there have any direct knowledge on how this should be performed?

[Dick Hosmer]

Depends on how much you want to spend, I guess. Are gauges available? If not I presume one could be custom-made, from chamber dimensions if drawings are available, or from a cartridge if not. I'm sure that the proportions (for G, NG, field) could be interpolated from any similar cartridge which seats on the shoulder. I no longer own a Lee, but IIRC, closing the bolt was to be done rather smartly - no easing it down like an '03. Also, the exact point of lockup, being a sort of wedge, would not be as easy to determine. If all else fails you could always use a cartridge with layers of tape on the head, and, after stripping the bolt, see what you get. If it would not close after say two or three layers, you'd be pretty good, but it if it ate ten layers, I'd never shoot it, that's for sure. I'd also never shoot it with anything other than carefully reformed .220 Swift brass (neck length be damned) and light loads. Hope that helps. Wasn't the guy who got killed using some oddball brass (.25 Remington Auto maybe?) that was nowhere near as robust as the Swift? IIRC, there was also some talk (even though he was an experienced bandleader) that there was also something funky about the round? Over-charged? Double-charged? Seemed to vary with who was telling the story. In any event, he was firing a questionable-at-best arm, with questionable ammunition, and paid the ultimate price for so doing. R.I.P.

[pickax]

I understand the want to shoot it. Maybe so as Dick described, but a weak receiver is a problem any way you look at it despite head space.
Maybe I'm just parroting old myths, but I would wall hang it as a foot note to history.

[CJCulpeper]

The two blown up rifles of deRuiter and in Virginia were a result of using reformed .30-40 brass. WARNING - DO NOT USE KRAG BRASS PARENT CASES FOR 6mm Lee Navy. And do hot rod the load either while you are at it.

https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/

Buffalo Arms uses 25-06 cases for 6mm Lee Navy. I would not think there would be any head space problems given the fact that the last commercial ammo was shot up in the 1930s. It also helps when you think about the amount of usage the individual guns received in the last 125 years outside of the Navy which is for all intents and purposes is nil at best.

I have shot my Lee Navies and compared the spent reformed 25-06 cases to original cartridges and you can not tell the difference unless you use a micrometer to the nearest thousandth.

I'll buy your wall hanger any time.

[Kragrifle]

The Navy did have trouble very early in the history of the Lee rifle, but it involved split necks on the cases and blowback gases in the shooter’s eyes. The problems were solved with a change in powder and led to the addition of a deflector shield to the bolt. From what I can find, there was never a case of a blown up rifle (second case you mention) or a bolt flying back popping out of battery (first case you mention).
When these rifles were assembled headspace was measured so that the rifle was matched to the receiver. When the rifles were directed to be returned to have the bolt shield added it was directed that the entire rifle was returned so that headspace could be checked. So we know that headspace was felt to be important. Now, I will put it to you a good number of Lee Navys out there are wearing non original bolts , yet the only failures involved reformed Krag brass. We all feel headspace is important, but maybe not so much with the Lees locking system (?).
Still would be good if we knew how to check the headspace before we pulled the trigger.

[Kragrifle]

Correction to the above. The initial rimless ammunition was produced by UMC. Winchester was picked to produce the second batch which corrected the problem. No data exists to tell if it was the case, powder, or both that were changed to fix the problem.

[CJCulpeper]

Now, I will put it to you a good number of Lee Navys out there are wearing non original bolts , yet the only failures involved reformed Krag brass. We all feel headspace is important, but maybe not so much with the Lees locking system (?). Still would be good if we knew how to check the headspace before we pulled the trigger.

I do not worry, well not excessively, about head space and I am unanimous in that. I liken it to Garands. There is no way to know if the bolt for that particular Garand was the exact one that rolled out of Springfield or Winchester in WW2. Oh the bolt that may be in it has the same markings as the one on the day of final assembly but you can not be certain it was the original one. I bet a dollar that ninety-nine point nine repeating to infinity that most all of the guns on the secondary market are not checked for headspace. You plunk down your money, take the gun home, clean it up and take it out for a spin with proper ammo. And nobody thinks twice about it.

I trust the designers and engineers used the Whitney model of manufacturing, parts uniformity. One bolt is the same as the next.

What I do not trust is some bubba reaming out the chamber to some other cartridge. Happened to me on a Krag.

Would it be nice to know? Sure. Do I care to know? Ummmmm. Not too much.

BTW I have a census for existing Win Lee's. Would you be willing share the serial number on yours with me?


The very best regards to you,