New Photos

[45govt]

Tried to post these on the TD board but I didn't want to go through all the trouble of spacing etc..

Anyway here are a couple new ones, note the Hazen loops, I don't think I have seen them in a period photo before
Thanks
Don

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374373/5463850/414434555.jpg
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL596/2374373/5463850/414434554.jpg

[Dick Hosmer]

Are you SURE those are Hazen loops? The rifle is a .50-70 - and, they just don't look "right" - perhaps some sort of custom belt by a leatherworker?

[45govt]

Looks like a 50-70 rifle based on site location, the cartridges don't look short and fat like 50-70's ?? do they?

[Dick Hosmer]

No, they don't, and AFAIK, Hazen loops, per se, were not made for .50, though almost anything leather could be made in the field.

The rear sight is not the only factor in determining model of rifle - hammer is bevelled and lock plate is raised. Back to the belt - there is no sign of the three signature (taller) wraparound belt loops, prominent in all pics of the Hazen pattern. So, at this point I'm thinking it is not, though with studio photos I suspect the soldier held whatever he was told to.

[45govt]

"there is no sign of the three signature (taller) wraparound belt loops, prominent in all pics of the Hazen pattern"

And you wouldn't see them as they are on the inside

[45govt]

Close up of the belt
The nose of the bullets do not look like the 45-70 nose??

[45govt]

From McChristian "The US Army in the West 1870-1880"
This could be even rarer than Hazen Loops as it may be one of the belts submitted for consideration??

[45govt]

One more photo, looks like a second belt underneath

[Dick Hosmer]

Don't know what it is but am still fairly certain that I know what it isn't! :1948:

[70ish]

The "second belt" is more likely to be the tongue of the belt which would necessarily be fed under the buckle end and prevent interference with the cartridges on the slide
on the right side. The Civil War style belt and oval buckle would require that. It is also a puzzle as to why the soldier with no rank on his sleeves is wearing what appears
to be the stripe of a pre 1871 Corporal or a post 1871 Sergeant. The color of the stripe is unknown, but the hat indicates post 1871 Infantry.

[45govt]

I guess we will never know for sure!

[Kragrifle]

1870 rifle?

[Dick Hosmer]

1870 rifle?

Appears to be.

[lyman]

could it possibly be a prop provided by the photographer?

[Dick Hosmer]

Very likely.