.58 rimfire dimensions

[Carlsr]

Would anyone here know the case dimensions for the first Allen .58 rimfire.
I have searched over and over but with no luck.
Also what is the proper name for this round? 58 Miller, 58 musket, 58 gatlin???
Thanks for any help 😊

[Johnny P]

According to Cartridges of the World:
.58 U.S. Musket (Berdan)

Bullet Diameter .589
Neck Diameter .625
Base Diameter .646
Rim Diameter .740
Rim Thickness .062
Case Length 1.75
Ctge. Length 2.15

[Edatbeach]

According to Cartridges of the World:
.58 U.S. Musket (Berdan)

Bullet Diameter .589
Neck Diameter .625
Base Diameter .646
Rim Diameter .740
Rim Thickness .062
Case Length 1.75
Ctge. Length 2.15

This is the centerfire cartridge.

[Dick Hosmer]

According to Hoyem, Vol. 1, item "RFR35 U.S.Allin, Miller, Springfield, 1866":

Bullet Diameter .590
Neck Diameter .619
Base Diameter .630
Rim Diameter .710
Rim Thickness (not provided)
Case Length 1.17
Ctge. Length 1.69

[Carlsr]

Thanks to all who responded. I'm searching for a way to shoot a first Allin so that it would not just be a wall hanger but first I need to win the auction I'm in.
Found a company, rcc brass in Texas I believe. They produce brass with an offset primmer for obsolete rimfire cartridges. He has dimensions for the 58 us musket only and I see according to Dick it is a U.S. Allin, Miller. The cartridge is made for use with a .22 blank (starter pistol blank) as the primer. Would this method of firing work for a large load of black powder?

[Tom Trevor]

Have a friend at the range that does exactly this with his rifle and so far works fine. get a couple and set yourself up to reload them on the range slow but works.

[Carlsr]

Thanks Tom,
Just got the price for 50 of these little gems, I say gems because for 50 pc. it's 320.00 smackers!!!
Will make sure I have rifle in hand before buying these.

[Tom Trevor]

the idea is you get five and learn to field load. far fewer cases to clean up Not to mention savings.

[Carlsr]

Unfortunately Tom, There is a 50 piece minimum : (

[Dick Hosmer]

They must be individually hand turned and drilled for the blank, etc. I can think of no production process that would not cost way more than it would be worth.

[Carlsr]

Yes Dick, they are rather expensive and are custom made.
Where else are you going to find 58 rimfire? I came to the end of the internet finding only one company that could manufacture theses case's.
Unless I missed another company the Piper must be paid lol!!
Couldn't even find empty cases.
Other custom cases are much lower as is my Martini Henry but then again many more manufacture that brass. I could make it myself but quicker to just buy it and not get the migraine.

[Tom Trevor]

I asked my friend about his case and even as he is a good machinist it was a pain to make one. Said he would be willing to split an order if you are interested. Dixie or Buffalo Arms should get an order and sell smaller lots from it?

[Carlsr]

Tom, is he looking to split the 58 rimfire? From what I was told they run a minimum lot of 50. They have other rimfire cases on the site but they are in stock and most likely have a higher demand. If he is looking for the same case the order may be able to be split?? This caliber is not even listed on Dixie or Buffalo Arms. I will not know until Wednesday if I'm going to get the rifle or not, hopefully I do!!!

[Tom Trevor]

Good luck. He shoots his with the one case and range loads it. Remember also the rifle is a group of very fragile parts and the cartridge was a musket round in a copper box! 60 grains of powder and a 500 grain bullet. Accuracy is what we call minute of mountain. Should you get the rifle and want to go ahead with the case order PM me here with your e-mail and I will have him contact you.

[Carlsr]

Thank you Tom, will do. What does he use for the bullet? Its amazing to me that they got 60 gr. of bp in that small case. I guess the diameter of the case helps??? I don't even load my 50 70 with 70 gr. LOL!!
Minute of mountain :icon_lol:

[Dick Hosmer]

I'd think that reloading the one case would not be much, if any, worse than using a musket. Perhaps easier because you wouldn't have to deal with loading a fouled bore after a few shots.

[Carlsr]

Tom,
Just wanted to let you know that I did not win the rifle. Now since I know where to find brass for 58 rimfire I will be on the lookout for one. Thanks again for all your help!
The cadet rifle sold on GB last night for 2,010.00 which went over my budget. I think I could have bidded 4,000.00 and the other bidder would have outbidded me 😂

[Dick Hosmer]

Better luck next time! But you are not going to find a cheap 1st Allin unless you blunder into one at a widow's yard sale for $125. You never did answer as to how far apart we were on my 3-band? I do have some flexibility and it's really not a bad looking gun at all. 99% of the people who saw it would not have a clue.

[Carlsr]

I realize they are not cheap but then again it seems no firearm is cheap these days LOL. I figured 2000.00 would be the top dollar for that one being a Cadet, any higher would have just been a war between the other bidder and myself and his pockets were most likely deeper than mine. My problem is my pockets are deep but I have short arms :icon_lol:
I appreciate the offer on the 3 bander but I'd rather pass unless the pirate was Black Beard, with provenance of course LOL!!

[Dick Hosmer]

Fair enough - no harm, no foul.

In fact, even with full disclosure, which WILL be given, a gun like that is best sold to a stranger.