At The Public Range Today

[togor]

Went to a public range this AM, with my son. Out in a rural area, pretty low-key. At the 10 yd pistol range, an older guy had a modern Colt Single-Action Army that he was playing around with, shooting up some old handloads. There was also a woman in her early 30's down at the end, pounding away with her Glock 22, obviously a LEO. And at the other end was a younger guy shooting off hand with AR carbine with a break on it. Looked like he could hold a 6" group at 10 yards....congrats on that I guess....but the blast wave was no fun. Good thing he ran out of ammo.

Anyhow, got to talking to the guy with the Colt after we'd finished shooting and the lady had left. He said when he first got there, he recognized the lady cop as one from a nearby city who had written him up for driving 45 in a 45 zone. No typo there, and he tried to talk her out of the ticket, but she wasn't having any of it. So he took a day off from work, went to traffic court, where the judge said..."hey that's a 45 zone what gives?" to an empty chair, as the cop didn't bother to show. Case dismissed, but geeze.

He's a local guy to the range I think, and he told another story about how a week earlier at the 100 yd section a guy was dumping mag after mag of hot brass onto the shooters on the adjacent benches. Most guys understand the deal with autoloaders, and there's only so many benches down at the right end of the line. And ranges are busy these days. But one of the adjacent shooters apparently wasn't ready for the cascade of hot brass and said "hey buddy do you mind, maybe a heads-up first?" which got some blowback about rights, etc. Most people at ranges are extremely civil and cooperative, for obvious reasons, but apparently not this guy. So someone says (unwisely IMO) "should we call the cops?" to which the mag-dumper replies by pulling out his shield and saying "I AM the cops!".

At that point the Colt SAA guy (who is telling me the story) pipes up by saying, "hey buddy, if you're wondering why relations between police and the public are a bit strained these days, this moment right here is a good example". Perhaps chagrined, the cop dumped a couple more mags then cleared out, leaving it for someone else to police up his targets and his brass. The guy telling me these stories puts it to ego, the idea that once you get the shield, you can't admit to being wrong. It's a plausible theory, but in my book the best plan is to just get the traffic stop over ASAP with minimal damage. Arguing only makes it worse. On the other hand, if you're off-duty, then just be a normal guy.

Oh and on the way from the pistol line back to the parking lot, there was a group (not social distancing) of young people waving their pistols out of the cases, not bothering to get to the line before uncasing their weapons. One of the nice things about private ranges is that people have to follow the rules or lose privileges. But this is a public range in the boon docks with no supervision so anything goes.

BTW, the Yugo M57 is a sweet pistol! Inexpensive, accurate, easy to control, but the 7.62 Tokarev ammo is a bit hard to come by right now.

[S.A. Boggs]

This is exactly why I now have my own range.
Sam

[togor]

I could shoot at home, have the room but prefer not to advertise.

[S.A. Boggs]

In regards to the cop not showing I would have asked for a continuance and also ask the judge if he would consider having her placed in contempt of court for not appearing. She is an officer of the court and this show's contempt for the judges office and dignity of his robe. Some cops are assigned to stand in for other's and again I would have requested the issuing office be present for questioning.
Prosecutors hate this to happen.
Sam

[m1ashooter]

Thanks for the good range report. My range has portable plywood shield that us auto loaders use next to our benches to contain the brass. I find it unpleasant also to shoot next to a guy with a brake.

[Art]

There was also a woman in her early 30's down at the end, pounding away with her Glock 22, obviously a LEO.......

Anyhow, got to talking to the guy with the Colt after we'd finished shooting and the lady had left. He said when he first got there, he recognized the lady cop as one from a nearby city who had written him up for driving 45 in a 45 zone. No typo there, and he tried to talk her out of the ticket, but she wasn't having any of it. So he took a day off from work, went to traffic court, where the judge said..."hey that's a 45 zone what gives?" to an empty chair, as the cop didn't bother to show. Case dismissed, but geeze.

He's a local guy to the range I think, and he told another story about how a week earlier at the 100 yd section a guy was dumping mag after mag of hot brass onto the shooters on the adjacent benches. Most guys understand the deal with autoloaders, and there's only so many benches down at the right end of the line. And ranges are busy these days. But one of the adjacent shooters apparently wasn't ready for the cascade of hot brass and said "hey buddy do you mind, maybe a heads-up first?" which got some blowback about rights, etc. Most people at ranges are extremely civil and cooperative, for obvious reasons, but apparently not this guy. So someone says (unwisely IMO) "should we call the cops?" to which the mag-dumper replies by pulling out his shield and saying "I AM the cops!".

At that point the Colt SAA guy (who is telling me the story) pipes up by saying, "hey buddy, if you're wondering why relations between police and the public are a bit strained these days, this moment right here is a good example". Perhaps chagrined, the cop dumped a couple more mags then cleared out, leaving it for someone else to police up his targets and his brass. The guy telling me these stories puts it to ego, the idea that once you get the shield, you can't admit to being wrong. It's a plausible theory, but in my book the best plan is to just get the traffic stop over ASAP with minimal damage. Arguing only makes it worse. On the other hand, if you're off-duty, then just be a normal guy.

I doubt you were here when John Kepler was posting on this site but this stuff could have well been written by him, and quite a few of the other hard right wing old timers. I think John would have been even more caustic It's probably the only thing you and he would have agreed on. I've been on this forum for quite a spell and the one thing that hasn't changed is "I detest cops stories." John posted dumb cop stories, including dumb cop on the range stories every chance he got.

Since you used the word "Shield" I figure you aren't a southern boy. Maybe things are just different here in Texas but I've shared public and private ranges with quite a few active and retired LEOs, including at the members only gun club I belong to now and never have had an experience similar to the ones you and Mr. Kepler described at every opportunity. There is plenty of range stupidity to go around though, regardless of who does it. I suppose I've just been lucky, or maybe Texas cops are a bit different (though I doubt it.)

The warrior class, both military and police, is a necessary evil that exists because people won't behave. Until there's a second coming that will not change.

The "Defund the Cops Movement" should please both you and Mr. Kepler. I think its interesting that the anti cop guys are starting to get their wish, at least in cities like Portland, New York, Seattle, Austin and Minneapolis and Baltimore. I, for one, am going to be really interested to see how it works out.

Cops not showing up in court isn't that uncommon, and SA Boggs is right, whatever the reason judges and prosecutors find it annoying. Not showing up does not endear the cop to either but their bosses do hear about it, especially if it happens more than once.

[Major Tom]

Well, Togor, if your hero Biden gets elected you won't have that scenario at the range for long and you will probably smile when they confiscate your guns!

[rayg]

Togor says...There was also a woman in her early 30's down at the end, POUNDING away with her Glock 22, obviously a LEO. And at the other end was a younger guy shooting off hand with AR carbine with a break on it. Looked like he could hold a 6" group at 10 yards....congrats on that I guess....but the blast wave was no fun. Good thing he ran out of ammo.

Anyhow, got to talking to the guy with the Colt after we'd finished shooting and the lady had left. He said when he first got there, he recognized the lady cop as one from a nearby city who had written him up for driving 45 in a 45 zone.

The guys BS stories.. 45 in a 45 zone...Never happened as would never get past the supervisor..hot brass also..
I said this before and will say it again..There is some reason Togor has a hard on for cops..as all he does is post negative stories including as many online stories as he can find... We can only guess why! LOL....

[Roadkingtrax]

So he didn't "police" his brass and trash?

[S.A. Boggs]

1943 South Pacific:

Marines are watching a film outdoors, a detective movie. In the opening scene a woman walks onstage and confronts another woman. In the woman's hand is a Colt auto and she plants several rounds in the other woman. As the woman stands over the dead body a lone voice is heard from the back of the Marines, "Dammit lady! Police your brass and get off the firing point!"...Laughter erupts!!!
Sam

[togor]

Well Art,

Actually I get on well with law enforcement. My encounters fall into the occasional traffic stop (not so many anymore), and when I see something around here, like a crippled deer maimed in a car collision, suffering in the ditch, or a car in the parking lot of the nearby public lands, unattended for a week. Or coming back into the country through the CBP checkpoint at the airport. In all cases I take the practical view....they're on the job, let them get on with it and be on my way. I'm yet to personally encounter a situation where I saw an up side to arguing with the cops. Other people have a different story to tell.

Cops are as human as everyone else, but the difference is that they can bring down all kinds of force to turn a grey area into black & white in their favor. As you say that is just part of the deal of having police, just like auto-immune diseases in humans are one consequence of having kick-ass immune systems that allow us to live 80 years or more on the planet. That said, when they're off the job, they should just act like regular people. That hardly seems too much to ask.

I remember Mr. Kepler. In his memory I'll tell another story, of a petty dictator working for Customs and Border Protection. Before they rolled out the declarations kiosks, they used to hand out these blue customs forms on the flight back to the USA, on which you make declarations. Well it's an airplane so people are filling them out with whatever is handy--pencil or pen, so its legible. I've done them many times in pencil, no problem, and nothing to declare from a weeklong work trip. Well this one time I get to the front of the line (gotta stand *behind* that line until they call for you), get called up, and the guy, maybe age 30, says "you need to fill this out in pen". Breaking my own rule to not haggle with these guys, and feeling the pressure of a tight connection, I say "news to me, pencil has always worked in the past." I'm also wondering if I even have a pen!

He slides a blank form to me, and who knows, maybe he read my jet-lagged body language which said "this is SUCH chickensh*t" he also slid me a pen and didn't send me to the back of the line, instead pointing me to the adjacent booth (currently closed), saying "fill it out there". So I did, then stood there politely, at attention, once it was done. He eventually called me back, saw there was nothing to declare, I bit my tongue, and was on my way.

As a former LEO I suppose it's easy to tell us that petty emperors in law enforcement are just something the public has to live with. But the bureaucrats at the DMV can say the same thing, or politicians, or ministers. As much training as people get, it shouldn't be hard to put in a slide that says "DON'T BE A PETTY TYRANT IN YOUR DEALING WITH THE PUBLIC" with the expectation that employees follow it. In other words, the chance to act like royalty should not be a perk of any government job.

[rayg]

[QUOTE=togor;593560]Well Art,

Actually I get on well with law enforcement.

Well you could have fooled me! As it seems like you go out of your way to find and post any negative incidents involving the police constantly. And I mentioned that to you about it before.

[Roadkingtrax]

Sounds like the guy was an a$$hole. The cop made it known he was law enforcement. That makes him an a$$hole cop.

Every profession has them. Public employees are not beyond reproach.

[togor]

Well you could have fooled me! As it seems like you go out of your way to find and post any negative incidents involving the police constantly. And I mentioned that to you about it before.

I think you're too sensitive to criticism of cops. Pointing out where they come up short doesn't mean someone wants to do away with the function. Every job needs to stay current with the times. If you're going to argue that it's up to society to live in the way that is convenient for the police then I'm going to tell you that is the very definition of a police state and ass backwards wrong.

[S.A. Boggs]

I doubt you were here when John Kepler was posting on this site but this stuff could have well been written by him, and quite a few of the other hard right wing old timers. I think John would have been even more caustic It's probably the only thing you and he would have agreed on. I've been on this forum for quite a spell and the one thing that hasn't changed is "I detest cops stories." John posted dumb cop stories, including dumb cop on the range stories every chance he got.

Since you used the word "Shield" I figure you aren't a southern boy. Maybe things are just different here in Texas but I've shared public and private ranges with quite a few active and retired LEOs, including at the members only gun club I belong to now and never have had an experience similar to the ones you and Mr. Kepler described at every opportunity. There is plenty of range stupidity to go around though, regardless of who does it. I suppose I've just been lucky, or maybe Texas cops are a bit different (though I doubt it.)

The warrior class, both military and police, is a necessary evil that exists because people won't behave. Until there's a second coming that will not change.

The "Defund the Cops Movement" should please both you and Mr. Kepler. I think its interesting that the anti cop guys are starting to get their wish, at least in cities like Portland, New York, Seattle, Austin and Minneapolis and Baltimore. I, for one, am going to be really interested to see how it works out.

Cops not showing up in court isn't that uncommon, and SA Boggs is right, whatever the reason judges and prosecutors find it annoying. Not showing up does not endear the cop to either but their bosses do hear about it, especially if it happens more than once.

Thank you for affirming what I stated.
Sam

[rayg]

I think you're too sensitive to criticism of cops. Pointing out where they come up short doesn't mean someone wants to do away with the function. Every job needs to stay current with the times. If you're going to argue that it's up to society to live in the way that is convenient for the police then I'm going to tell you that is the very definition of a police state and ass backwards wrong.

Well sensitive to criticism of cops or not..You are the only one who constantly brings up negative numerous bad stories of cops..We'll let the readers here decide whether or not you have a hard on for cops....

[lyman]

I stopped going to our local public range long ago,

between the brass hounds trying to scoop up my brass and everyone else's and the folks that needed some training, the place had you shoot from a bench,

I joined a private club in the mid 90's and never looked back

re cops with a shield,,

several times years ago the local PD was called to my shop for gunfire,

then, we could shoot in the back yard, (wooded , with downhill, nothing on the other side of the creek)


one time, mid afternoon on a weekday,
we were cranking out some ammo thru a couple of rifles, both were NFA,

we as in Dad, I , and the owner of the G3 we were shooting,

the owner of the G3 tells us to hold up a second, he got a call on his radio,

yep, gunfire, yep, automatic gunfire, yep, he got it and all was good,

some neighbor called, and it was a police officer we were shooting with,

- - - Updated - - -


I think you're too sensitive to criticism of cops. Pointing out where they come up short doesn't mean someone wants to do away with the function. Every job needs to stay current with the times. If you're going to argue that it's up to society to live in the way that is convenient for the police then I'm going to tell you that is the very definition of a police state and ass backwards wrong.

actually, it is you,


but you don't get it,


observation on your typing style, and story telling,


your first post in this thread you sound a bit fuddish,


I agree, the cop was a douche, but the way you typed it makes you look fuddy and smug,



of course you could repeat that word for work at a table over a beer with any of us and it may come out completely different

[dryheat]

Lyman you are a valuable asset here. Even with your lack of punctuation and capitalisation(I'm getting a red line but I swear it's spelled right).
I hate the local range. I used to go there when it was loosely run. Five guys or so. When it was time to take a break someone would crank out the flag. Last guy out locked the gate. Those days are gone. When I was there no one ever scared the crap out of us with a random loose round. I'm sure it happened. There were about forty holes in the corrugated roof. I used to think they were the product of nincompoops but now I think some guys shot it up just because they were jag-offs(another old time term. I've got a ton of em). The lesson here? Some discipline is required. I still shoot out in the boondocks which I vastly prefer.

[togor]

We went back that range a couple days later to shoot some long guns, which was impossible on the first day. We were shooting rifles with breaks, but we got there early enough so just us at one end, and a guy tuning some M1A loads at the other. He left and as we were finishing up, some retired folks showed up. He saw my Garand and I looked at his, which he had picked up at a gun shop, just siting it in for the first time. Looked like a CMP service grade, replacement stock, postwar parts, 3M serial number. Service used but not a beater. The fun gun was his wife's, a AR in .308, 16" barrel, flash hider, no break. Don't see many 75 year old ladies shooting those but if she's a lifetime shooter, no problem. Even if not, a .308 AR doesn't beat someone up like a K98k.

Lyman, unlikely we ever get that beer. But if we did, we could talk guns, not politics, and it would probably be fine.

[lyman]

We went back that range a couple days later to shoot some long guns, which was impossible on the first day. We were shooting rifles with breaks, but we got there early enough so just us at one end, and a guy tuning some M1A loads at the other. He left and as we were finishing up, some retired folks showed up. He saw my Garand and I looked at his, which he had picked up at a gun shop, just siting it in for the first time. Looked like a CMP service grade, replacement stock, postwar parts, 3M serial number. Service used but not a beater. The fun gun was his wife's, a AR in .308, 16" barrel, flash hider, no break. Don't see many 75 year old ladies shooting those but if she's a lifetime shooter, no problem. Even if not, a .308 AR doesn't beat someone up like a K98k.

Lyman, unlikely we ever get that beer. But if we did, we could talk guns, not politics, and it would probably be fine.

speaking of women shooters,

had a couple come in one night, very attractive lady, guessing late 40's, and her date,
she was quiet, he was a talker,
looking for a handgun of some type for him, and maybe for her,

had a guy at the time that worked for me who is a great guy, but a bit opinionated, in a 60's kind of way,

so he started to steer her towards a revolver,

boyfriend made a comment about her shooting, kinda off the cuff, and handed her a 1911 he was looking at,

she picked it up, and was handling it, in a very familiar way

I stepped up and asked her how long she had been competing,,,

she said a good while,


she was a IPSC and Bullseye competitor,

something the guy that worked for me did not see, he was too busy looking at her, and trying to be the know it all male gun guy,, (which is something I still rag him about to this day, even tho he no longer works for me)

[JOHN COOK]

Wife and I shoot a privately owned range. I pay 20.00 an hour for pistol range which is right outside back door of his business. He sells fishing and hunting supplies and is instructor for CWP. NO ONE is allowed on range while we are shooting. We get through we police brass go inside and pay. Forgot to mention he requires you to leave your drivers license with him when you shoot. He said it covers him in case of some type lawsuit. Has cameras on range and in store . This allows him to have a record you came in at a certain time and you left at a certain time and would cover him in case of claim of injury while on his property. I have no problem with this at all. Also has a 100 yard rifle range about 2 miles from pistol range , covered shed and bench rests. Same rules, nobody allowed while you are there. No arrs holes there to make me loose my cool. I shoot custom built 25:06 ,prior to commercial rifles. Mauser action Bishop stock forgot what the barrel is, my 1918 30:06 , 03-A3 and Mark 1. Wife loves to burn up .22 caliber in Remington Nylon 66. She said she likes to pull the trigger fast and hit the target with alL the rounds LOL, LOL shes only about 25 yards on man size silhouette. We have fun and go about once a month. We both carry.......

John in SC

[Gun Smoke]

Those that have nothing to hide have no reason to not trust or dislike the police.

If any of this range talk is true then toger needs to thank Trump for what guns he is allowed to possess and shoot. As mentioned, with hillary or biden they would be a thing of the past. In that communist world would toger then trust the police or still hide from them?

[togor]

Those that have nothing to hide have no reason to not trust or dislike the police.

If any of this range talk is true then toger needs to thank Trump for what guns he is allowed to possess and shoot. As mentioned, with hillary or biden they would be a thing of the past. In that communist world would toger then trust the police or still hide from them?

Save it for the 2A forum

[Gun Smoke]

Save it for the 2A forum





I'll post it anywhere I like and as often as I like.

[lyman]

I'll post it anywhere I like and as often as I like.

if you want to, fine,

but he is correct, political stuff goes in the political area, not gun talk

[Gun Smoke]

if you want to, fine,

but he is correct, political stuff goes in the political area, not gun talk

And I am correct to remind him and his of what a hypocrite he is with his support of democrat leaders while posting how much he likes shooting and guns. W/O demcrats there would be no political views of gun ownership but since there is, there is.

I will forever remind him and others that he is anti-gun and for total gun confiscation when he brings up the topic regardless of what area he is hacking to refresh that his anti-Trump, anti-America, anti-gun BS have no merit here.

Something you should support as well. We don't need anti-gunners here and they are only here for one reason.

The comment content is more important than where it is placed.

[Roadkingtrax]

And I am correct to remind him and his of what a hypocrite he is with his support of democrat leaders while posting how much he likes shooting and guns. W/O demcrats there would be no political views of gun ownership but since there is, there is.

I will forever remind him and others that he is anti-gun and for total gun confiscation when he brings up the topic regardless of what area he is hacking to refresh that his anti-Trump, anti-America, anti-gun BS have no merit here.

Something you should support as well. We don't need anti-gunners here and they are only here for one reason.

The comment content is more important than where it is placed.

Sounds like you need to start your own forum or leave.

[lyman]

And I am correct to remind him and his of what a hypocrite he is with his support of democrat leaders while posting how much he likes shooting and guns. W/O demcrats there would be no political views of gun ownership but since there is, there is.

I will forever remind him and others that he is anti-gun and for total gun confiscation when he brings up the topic regardless of what area he is hacking to refresh that his anti-Trump, anti-America, anti-gun BS have no merit here.

Something you should support as well. We don't need anti-gunners here and they are only here for one reason.

The comment content is more important than where it is placed.

before you get too preachy, I am one of the few that will challenge him on those comments, even it if takes 6 pages to do it, using facts,


if you look thru my post history, you will see that, as well as my comments on togor's fuddy attitude,


still belongs in the political section,, you can always go there and start a thread linked to this one,

I've said it till I am blue in the face that folks avoid the political section for a reason, togor and RED being 2 of the reasons, and that stuff does not need to be posted in this section,


and yes, if I could, I would edit and or lock, but I can still infract,, keep that in mind

[Gun Smoke]

As said before, w/o the troll none of this would be happening.

If nothing changes, nothing changes.

[Hal O'Peridol]

0 FriendsGun Smoke has not made any friends yet

[Gun Smoke]

0 FriendsGun Smoke has not made any friends yet



This coming from someone who's been here since 2009 and only one friend who doesn't seem to post here any longer.

[lyman]

This coming from someone who's been here since 2009 and only one friend who doesn't seem to post here any longer.

and your point?


I was here in 2004 , but like most had to re register a few times over the years,


time to stop the bickering and move on,,,

[free1954]

and your point?


I was here in 2004 , but like most had to re register a few times over the years,


time to stop the bickering and move on,,,

AMEN. at least they can post a picture of a gun with their comments

[lyman]

This coming from someone who's been here since 2009 and only one friend who doesn't seem to post here any longer.

BTW,

Hal is a noted Enfield Collector, used to post here often, and now is seen mostly on another forum I also belong to,


good guy, very knowledgeable,

[Gun Smoke]

I thought you wanted to end this.

BTW, my point was crystal clear.