Help dating rifle

[Liam]

OK, I tried. Surfed the internet for a couple topics trying to find answers. One, when was my rifle manufactured? Two, is an "SAF"-stamped nose cap from India? None of my other milsurps have anything NEAR the number of stamps this rifle has! Most indicate that BSA manufactured my rifle to military specifications. Although lacking stacking swivel lug. It has a lug for swivel in front of magazine (not the simple metal loop). It has an early rear sight with windage adjustment, magazine cut-off and there is a serial number on the barrel, receiver and rear sight that all match. There is no prefix letter. The serial numbers all match and were applied using same stamps, so I assume barrel is not a replacement. Pics are of the markings I thought might help the most. My camera is a phone, so sorry the focus is not dead on. Any info about the rifle is appreciated.4808348084480854808648087

[Liam]

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[Liam]

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[butlersrangers]

Maybe the marking is a poorly stamped "SAR" for South African Republic?

The Broad-Arrow inside the "U" marking, on the stock-wrist, would support (Union of) South Africa.

The "L" on the butt-heel indicates a Long Butt-Stock, (for long Cape Dutch Arms).

Original date and maker would be marked on right-side of socket, near bolt knob.

[butlersrangers]

Possibly, your barrel was a new replacement barrel, made on contract by B.S.A., and put on during a rebuild program.

I once had an identical "B.S.A. Trade-Mark" barrel on a '1953 FTR' SMLE rifle.

My 'factory thorough repair' rifle used a WW1 era action. The rifle was assembled with reconditioned parts, new barrel, and new wood. My rifle had no South Africa marks.

I think there is a good chance your nice looking SMLE was reconditioned, by BSA, for the Union of South Africa. The proof marks are Birmingham Commercial Proofs and may indicate sale and export to an independent country.

[Liam]

I somehow left the pic of the wrist off. See below.

Also, it definitely is "SAF" on the nosecap. I took a close look with a loop. The same query popped up on past discussions of the SAF nose caps. Several folks said they were out of India, but I remain unsure. So, perhaps all three serial numbers were added when the rifle received a new barrel? The font is an exact match on all three, so I assumed put on at the onset by BSA. Then again, I read some of these Mk IIIs had no serial at all.

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[lyman]

you have a Commercial BSA rifle, that was proofed at Birmingham at some point,


JB and some others can give you better info on the markings to narrow it down more

[JB White]

you have a Commercial BSA rifle, that was proofed at Birmingham at some point,


JB and some others can give you better info on the markings to narrow it down more

***crunching and squishing noises as Lyman tosses JB under the bus*** ;)

What has been said here already pretty much sums it up for now. A BSA commercial rifle intended for civilian sale or fulfilment of a contract order.
Passed proof at the Birmingham proof house prior to civilian release to the public. Somewhere in its travels it was inventoried and marked as property of the Republic of South Africa.
Not necessarily in that chronological order. Those researchers who have been compiling records on BSA commercial or Lee Speed rifles etc may be able to shed more enlightenment via their compiled data. The shape and format of the ownership mark and proof marks can often trace the timeline within a certain period.

Its a fine looking rifle which has the appearance of a little excessive cleaning and maintenance. Cringe factor on a military arm, but not so much on a commercial one. I certainly wouldn't mind adding such a specimen to my own stable.

Regarding the SAF marking....familiar to me but can't nail it down at the moment. Mind is waffling somewhere between 'Small Arms Factory' as in Lithgow etc, or South African Florist volunteers.
Don't quote me as I'll surely deny ever having said it. LOL

[Sunray]

"...proofed at Birmingham..." That's what all the 'BNP', .303, NITRO PROOF stamps are about. Required by English law for any milsurp sold through there.
I'd be thinking it might be a 'parts' rifle vs a 'commercial BSA. Hard to tell from just pictures(excellent pictures though).

[JB White]

I'd be thinking it might be a 'parts' rifle vs a 'commercial BSA. Hard to tell from just pictures(excellent pictures though).

Aside from it having a certain freshness to it, judging by the pics I can see nothing which might condemn it to bitser status. It is a possibility parts might have been replaced. For instance a long buttstock to suit an owners taste and shooting style. That's not a bad thing if the longer butt is better for the new owner. Most choose the longer one anyway.
The rifle itself is definitely a commercial BSA though. I have no doubts about that. Just cleaned and maintained (maybe slightly upgraded) the same as anyone would do with their favorite off-the-shelf sporting rifle.
Like any used rifle, I would inspect the heck out of it. If it passes muster and shoots 1.5 MOA, then that one would be seeing a lot of sunshine and not the back row of my safe.

[Liam]

Well took the rifle to the farm last weekend to fire a few after groundhog hunting all day. Only got off 4 or 5 shots before I realized my backstop for .22-250 varmint rounds wasn't up to the task with this .303 180 gr ammo. Will have to return soon and go to a better backstop. However, I fired a few and noticed the drastic change in the fired case's profile. I reload, so I can trim to length and neck size, but wondering how many times I will be able to reload. I am on 6 reloads for some of my .22-250 brass, but accept that this new (to me) round has its limitations.
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[JB White]

PPU is decent brass and you should get a pretty fair number of reloads from it. Providing it isn't overworked. Stick with the neck sizing.
I've always bumped the shoulders back a wee bit, but I usually chuck all my bottleneck cases at around the 5th of 6th time.

[Parashooter]

. . . wondering how many times I will be able to reload. I am on 6 reloads for some of my .22-250 brass, but accept that this new (to me) round has its limitations.

To demonstrate how we can control .303 axial clearance ("headspace") using only the shoulder, I filed off the rim of a once-fired Remington .303 case. After adding an extractor groove to fit a Mauser-size shellholder, I neck-sized, reloaded and fired this case 19 more times.

The load was a 180-grain jacketed soft-point over a lightly-compressed charge of IMR 4350 (giving an average velocity of 2310 fps for the 19 shots and listed at just under 39,000 CUP in my IMR data booklet). The test rifle was a 1943 Lithgow S.M.L.E. Mk.III*.

20 shots was enough for a practical test, I sectioned the case to examine the web/body junction area where thinning normally occurs. This case, fired 19 times with no rim, did not stretch or thin at all. I'm sure it could have continued for at least another 20 of these moderate loads.

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[Liam]

Good to hear. I use a shop-made steel wire probe to "feel" the inside of case for hints of thinning. I think your method of the occasional sacrifice would be more informative. Thank you.

[Parashooter]

No need for sacrifice - except to show folks something they might not otherwise believe. Incipient case separations are readily visible from the outside - once we've learned what to look for -

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[The Armourer]

It certainly seems to be a 'mix' of parts with South African furniture.

If you can do a good, clear photo of the 'cross' to the top left of the BM (proof mark) it will tell us what year it was prooved..
The problem is that it only tells us when it was sold into the UK civilian gun market, not when it was made.