Need help with 45-70 rounds for M1873

[cassb]

I have the M1873 I posted about before (about the weird peep sight). I have disassembled, cleaned, lubed and reassembled it and it looks great. I'd like to shoot it now.

So I have some rounds that came with the rifle that I guess my Dad collected, bought or inherited. I'd like to find out what these are, how old they are, and whether I should shoot them or just buy some new 45-70 rounds for hunting.

There are 4 different types here. If you have trouble seeing the markings, they are from left to right:
1) WCC - 1944 - 45-70MKI
2) REM-UMC 45 GOVT
3) WRA 45-70 GOVT
4) WESTERN .45-70

#3 and 4 seem like they have a copper jacket maybe? The other two appear to be all lead.

Any help is appreciated! Thanks!

[Dick Hosmer]

They are all "modern", and would appear to be reloads. #1 used a case from a WW2 line-throwing blank. Yes, the Navy still had a few trapdoors with 12" barrels, used to pass lines ship-to-ship. You have no way of knowing what the load is, and they may not all be the same. I'd recommend keeping them as a memento, and buying new ammo to shoot. "Cowboy Action" labeled loads are a good start.

[cassb]

They are all "modern", and would appear to be reloads. #1 used a case from a WW2 line-throwing blank. Yes, the Navy still had a few trapdoors with 12" barrels, used to pass lines ship-to-ship. You have no way of knowing what the load is, and they may not all be the same. I'd recommend keeping them as a memento, and buying new ammo to shoot. "Cowboy Action" labeled loads are a good start.

Thanks, Dick. What would Dick's Sporting Goods have that I can pick up to shoot with this rifle and not blow up the chamber? I have never bought .45 rounds before...only 12 ga. slugs.

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/search/SearchDisplay?categoryId=&storeId=15108&catalogId=12301&langId=-1&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&showResultsPage=true&fromPage=Search&searchSource=Q&pageView=&beginIndex=0&DSGsearchType=Keyword&pageSize=48&searchTerm=ammo&advsearch=true&SearchType=Keyword&pageNumber=0&filterFacets=5382%3AAmmunition

I don't see any .45-70 ammo on their site... does Dick's even sell it? If not, where do I buy it?

Thanks!

[JimF]

I recommend Black Hills . . .cowboy action loads.

[Dick Hosmer]

Dicks are dicks - they caved and went anti-gun in most (all?) locations a couple of years ago. I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire.

[Carlsr]

Took the words right out of my mouth Dick😂
I have not shoped there since they went anti gun possibly before. Too many actual gun stores near me to even bother with them.
Cassb, Winchester makes some ok cowboy loads. You could also make the rounds yourself with minimal work. I load my own which saves money.

[cassb]

OK, thank you -- I'll check some local gun stores around here then. I asked about Dick's because I have a gift card I want to use. I also have a Cabela's card. I'll check them too.

So Black Hills and Winchester brands, cowboy loads. I assume that's 70 grains then.

[Carlsr]

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/hsm-cowboy-action-.45-70-government-ammunition-20-rounds-lead-rnfp-405-grains-hsm-45-70-2-n/FC-837306002229.html
Seems most are out of stock like midway and cheaper than dirt. I load my own with 2f black powder and home made cast bullets.
You may also want to check buffalo arms, they sell cowboy action loads.

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That link was cheaper than dirt. Lost the other link which was 53.00 for a box of 20.

[Carlsr]

Here is buffalo arms.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/cowboy-ammo/smokeless-ammo/45-70-government-405-grain-rn-fp-lead-cowboy-ammo-box-of-20-amou45701

[cassb]

Here is buffalo arms.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/cowboy-ammo/smokeless-ammo/45-70-government-405-grain-rn-fp-lead-cowboy-ammo-box-of-20-amou45701

Awesome, thank you! The Buffalo Arms site says specifically it's safe for Trapdoor rifles, and it's cheaper than "cheaper than dirt". :-)

I'll call around locally and see if they have the same thing, although it looks like these may be loaded and casted by Buffalo Arms themselves. I don't plan on shooting this rifle much after sighting it in, but hopefully for deer season here in NY. Kaboom -- venison! :-)

[Carlsr]

I seriously doubt that you will find those rounds locally and if you do they will most likely be for modern 45 70 rifles with jacketed bullets. Some say shooting those are fine and others will say no, I prefer lead bullets with black powder but that's my choice.

[cassb]

I am having trouble finding .45-70 Cowboy Action ammunition online or in stores. HSM .45-70 Cowboy Action seems to be out of stock at Cabelas and all online stores. I called HSM in Montana and they said they are a year out filling orders on their own site. It seems to sell for $25-$40 for a box of 20, plus shipping and tax.

Is there a secret web site or something I don't know about to buy this ammo? I'd really like to use this rifle for deer season this year, but I need a couple boxes so I can sight it in and then have enough left for hunting. I wonder if I can even get ammo shipped to NY?

Thanks!

[Carlsr]

Buffalo arms has 45/70 in stock with several options, smokeless or black powder and bullet weights being 406 gr. And 500 gr.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/cowboy-ammo/smokeless-ammo/45-70-government-405-grain-rn-fp-lead-cowboy-ammo-box-of-20-amou45701

[cassb]

Buffalo arms has 45/70 in stock with several options, smokeless or black powder and bullet weights being 406 gr. And 500 gr.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/cowboy-ammo/smokeless-ammo/45-70-government-405-grain-rn-fp-lead-cowboy-ammo-box-of-20-amou45701

OK, thank you! I have been reading and many people recommend black powder just to make sure the gun is shooting what it was designed to shoot. Any opinion on that?

[cassb]

Damn. I just called Buffalo Arms and they are out of the 405 grain black powder and no known restock date. I'm just batting 1000 here. Looks like I won't be hunting with this rifle this year. :(

[Carlsr]

This is in stock pluse they have smokeless in stock as well.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/black-powder-ammo/non-metric-calibers/42-45-caliber/45-70-government-500-grn-rnfp-black-powder-ammo-box-of-20-amobp4570500

[cassb]

This is in stock pluse they have smokeless in stock as well.
https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition/black-powder-ammo/non-metric-calibers/42-45-caliber/45-70-government-500-grn-rnfp-black-powder-ammo-box-of-20-amobp4570500

Yes, but 405 grains is the original bullet weight though, correct? 500 would work, but have more drop at 100 yds?

[Tkacook]

These might be another choice.

https://www.steinelammo.com/product/45-70-government-405gr-rnfp-trapdoor/

Remington sells a "Safe for all Rifles" version that was always been ok for Trapdoors.

[cassb]

These might be another choice.

https://www.steinelammo.com/product/45-70-government-405gr-rnfp-trapdoor/

Remington sells a "Safe for all Rifles" version that was always been ok for Trapdoors.

Thank you -- yeah, they are out of stock too. Seems like everyone in the world ordered 45-70 405 grain cowboy action ammo before I did. lol

[Tom Trevor]

Do not feel bad there is NO ammo any place. The gun shop owner at the range today told me that that .223 at one time was about 10.00 a box of fifty. there is none in stock and shills on Gunbroker are asking .75-1.00 per round. They did have a couple of boxes of .303 British on the shelf. This happens every election year and supplies will not return to normal until mid 2021. cast your own and reload.

[cassb]

Do not feel bad there is NO ammo any place. The gun shop owner at the range today told me that that .223 at one time was about 10.00 a box of fifty. there is none in stock and shills on Gunbroker are asking .75-1.00 per round. They did have a couple of boxes of .303 British on the shelf. This happens every election year and supplies will not return to normal until mid 2021. cast your own and reload.

That's what I was afraid of. OK, thanks for the info. I guess I'll wait until next year - unless Biden/Harris is elected, and then maybe never. ;-)

I don't know how to reload my own and don't really want to take up a new hobby.

[cassb]

Hey... I actually found some for a decent price at outdoorlimited.com. $1.75 per round, plus shipping and tax came out to about 2.25 per round total. I got 2 boxes because who knows when they'll starting taking ammo away.

https://www.outdoorlimited.com/rifle-ammo/45-70-ammo/hsm-45-70-cowboy-action-405-gr-round-nose-flat-point-20-rounds/

I guess I'll take the smokeless power. I did call a local gun shop looking for this ammo and he said he has three trapdoors and uses these rounds in them.

So I am all set now for deer season... thanks to all for your help!

[Carlsr]

500 gr. is rifle and 405 gr. is carbine and rifle. Both you would need to sight in with your rifle.
Since you don't want to reload you should get a box of 500 gr. from buffalo arms before they run out.
If you purchase them now you will have them for latter instead of not having them latter. Always best to have extras 😁

[cassb]

500 gr. is rifle and 405 gr. is carbine and rifle. Both you would need to sight in with your rifle.
Since you don't want to reload you should get a box of 500 gr. from buffalo arms before they run out.
If you purchase them now you will have them for latter instead of not having them latter. Always best to have extras ��

I got the 405 gr. ones from Outdoor Limited. Should arrive in a couple weeks!

[Carlsr]

Yes, I seen that you bought some. I'm just trying to say that it is best to have extras on hand. Your rifle may also shoot the 500 gr. More accurate??? Just food for thought.

[cassb]

Yes, I seen that you bought some. I'm just trying to say that it is best to have extras on hand. Your rifle may also shoot the 500 gr. More accurate??? Just food for thought.

Oh, sorry I see what you mean now. That's probably a good idea... who knows how long we'll be able to get ammo any more, the way the country is headed. :icon_rolleyes:

[DOM]

locate a set o lyman hand tools . 310 dies nut cracker tool, cast your own 405 weight.
good luck. DAP

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locate a set o lyman hand tools . 310 dies nut cracker tool, cast your own 405 weight.
good luck. DAP