View Full Version : Soldiers of the 357th Reg, 90th Div
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Interesting Battle of the Bulge photo. More carbines than M1s.
m1ashooter
01-29-2021, 08:08
Could be HQ Company type troops?
If you watched Saving Pvt. Ryan you might recognize the scenery. Not saying SPR was there, but Spielberg knew what it should look like.
I always look for the Garand, but I see the Carbines too. Makes you wonder. Were they democrats?
Major Tom
01-30-2021, 05:50
Carbine vs garand. Troops always liked the lighter carrying weight of the carbine until (especially in Winter) it took multiple hits with the carbine to put down the enemy. The garand would put them down with a good torso hit.
firstflabn
01-30-2021, 09:21
Could be HQ Company type troops?
There were more Garands than carbines authorized for both infantry battalion HHC and infantry regiment HHC, so not sure logic supports your theory. Back to the drawing board.
Being strictly USN, forgive my lack of knowledge. Did a WW2 foot soldier have a choice in which rifle he would carry into combat? A few pounds difference seems like a small price to pay for the ability to shoot through things. The M1 and the BAR shot the same round. The BAR just delivered them all at once, if desired. Heavy as Hell. Can’t imagine being on the receiving end.
Being strictly USN, forgive my lack of knowledge. Did a WW2 foot soldier have a choice in which rifle he would carry into combat? A few pounds difference seems like a small price to pay for the ability to shoot through things. The M1 and the BAR shot the same round. The BAR just delivered them all at once, if desired. Heavy as Hell. Can’t imagine being on the receiving end.
No...and yes. An individual soldier's weapon was (and is) authorized on the Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E.) So if the TO&E said you were authorized an M1 an M1 was what you were issued. That was known to change in the field where soldiers would sometimes acquire a weapon they weren't authorized under the TO&E and most of the time nothing was said about it, at least in front line units. This sometimes included captured weapons.
I read a book on the "Band of Brothers" soldiers regarding their equipment and the consensus of these men seemed to be that the M1 was the preferred personal weapon in the Airborne right up to and including Field Grade Officers. Major Winters did indeed carry an M1.
Interestingly the production of M1 Carbines in WWII exceeded that of M1 Rifles, so a lot of guys were being issued the little rifles.
The M1 must have seemed like a Star Wars weapon to the WW2 soldiers compared to the ‘03. So advanced and powerful. Target acquisition simplified. Aim and pull the trigger 8 times.
No...and yes. An individual soldier's weapon was (and is) authorized on the Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E.) So if the TO&E said you were authorized an M1 an M1 was what you were issued. That was known to change in the field where soldiers would sometimes acquire a weapon they weren't authorized under the TO&E and most of the time nothing was said about it, at least in front line units. This sometimes included captured weapons.
I read a book on the "Band of Brothers" soldiers regarding their equipment and the consensus of these men seemed to be that the M1 was the preferred personal weapon in the Airborne right up to and including Field Grade Officers. Major Winters did indeed carry an M1.
Interestingly the production of M1 Carbines in WWII exceeded that of M1 Rifles, so a lot of guys were being issued the little rifles.
Art--
Quite true. I was in the first year of the last Gulf war. My TO&E weapon was a M9 Beretta Pistol. I felt like I was running around naked with that "pop" gun while the Iraqi were generally armed with AK series of weapons. Under the TO&E, the local infantry was to provide security for us. Well, that did not happen, they were busy just protecting themselves. TO&E are written by desk bound idiots who have no clue of reality. In order to protect myself I found a Yugo M70AB2 AK Series with a folding metal stock which lying in the desert. Magazines were easy to get. I also got some American made 7.62x39 rounds from the SOF folks that station next to our compound. We were a moltly looking bunch with AK, Sterlings and a few Stens and PPSH41s thrown in. We kept these until they could emergency ship us some M16A2 from the states. They were interesting times.
I read somewhere that firing an AK in a combat situation was risky since it’s unique report was well known and could attract return fire from friendly forces. True?
blackhawknj
02-01-2021, 07:02
One of those stories that, like the "ping" of the Garand's clip ejecting, gets around and makes some sense until you examine it closely. In Vietnam we were told not to use captured weapons and munitions due to a covert operation that was sabotaging enemy ammunition.
Front line troops always have a casual attitude towards uniform regulations, TO&E, and a contemptuous attitude towards rear echelon types who make a fuss about them.
I read somewhere that firing an AK in a combat situation was risky since it’s unique report was well known and could attract return fire from friendly forces. True?
I wouldn't know about that personally.
I do know some weapons have a distinct sound signature. German WWII machine guns (MG34 and especially MG42) were very distinct since because of their very high rate of fire you couldn't distinguish individual reports. The Japanese heavy machine guns were called "woodpeckers" sometimes because of their relatively slow rate of fire. I have at least the German part from people with personal experience.
From one of Clint Eastwood's more forgettable and sillier movies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsOHX9jVJyo
blackhawknj
02-01-2021, 07:12
Yes, I have heard recordings of the MG-42 being fired, its 1200 RPM made it sound like a buzz saw.
People forget troops don't wear hearing protectors, after a few days they are half deaf, groggy, exhausted, etc.
I have no clue about sounds in combat, but I have shot just about everything Uncle Sam has in inventory (up until they replaced the M60) and a lot of Euro and Combloc full autos,
the AK, MP40, Thompson, etc all have a very distinctive sound, based obviously on caliber)
I can say in regards to the M1, after standing a hundred yards of so behind the line at Perry, I never once heard a **ping** from a clip ejecting
I was amazed how quiet it was when they were firing rapids, but the distance back, wind direction, and open area likely accounted for that (I did not need hearing protection)
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