Remember when spark plugs were easy to change?

[Merc]

We’re getting ready for our annual 4 week Florida vacation. We always take the wife’s excellent running and super dependable 2011 Toyota Sienna V6 van so we can take our bikes, golf clubs, etc. with us.

I always change the full synthetic engine oil at 5K and transmission fluid at 60K. The van is running perfectly, but this year with 181K on the odometer, I decided that I’ve neglected replacing the original spark plugs long enough. I took it to a Toyota dealership to have the work done.

They did an excellent job, as usual, but the invoice was shocking. They said it was a “major job” so I paid the invoice and watched a YouTube video after I got home that showed exactly what they meant by “major job.”

The engine (like all FWD vehicles) is mounted side ways. Changing the front plugs takes about 10 minutes and changing the rear plugs takes a well trained technician about 3 hours. I suspect a technician that’s not familiar with the Sienna might spend all day or longer changing the rear plugs. The cowl, windshield wipers and linkage assembly, throttle body, and intake manifold all must be disconnected and removed before gaining access to the rear plugs. There’s no other way to do it. Modern cars are definitely not designed to be easily serviced.

I will say this about the Sienna. We bought it new in 2011 and it’s held up very well over the years. The only major repair work I’ve had done was replacing the squealing (but not leaking) water pump at about 80k miles. That was also a major job since the radiator and AC condenser had to be removed in order to gain access to the water pump.

I don’t have any reservations about driving the van to Florida and would not hesitate to buy another Sienna.

I see the 2121 Siennas are all 4 cylinder hybrids that’s supposed to get 35 mpg. My excellent running 2018 Toyota Highlander is a 6 cylinder hybrid that gets 25 mpg.

[jjrothWA]

Nice to know.

I'm replacing a 2005 Chrysler T&C,bought with 85kon it and now has 458k, still get22-25mpg but the body is rusting.
Have been looking at the Toyoda tundra combine mpg 17-23, or Nisan Pioneer smallpick-up with 19-24. the Nissan has 3600 towing capacity.

[Art]

Don't feel alone. This was (is?) a major problem with vans like the Sienna. A friend of ours has a Chrysler mini van with the exact same problem and his local mechanic eventually gave up and just changed the front plugs. Fortunately cars need a tune up so seldom these days that it isn't a problem for folks who turn their car over every few years; for the rest of us, well it is. I found out all about it when I tried to, and succeeded after much cursing and some skinned knuckles to change the left front headlamp on our 2007 Subaru Forrester. Modern cars are great...until they aren't.

Our current car is a 2019 Subaru its great, hope it stays that way.

[oscars]

Local Toyota dealership is charging a premium for leftover 20 Siennas and has a waiting list for 18 and 19 Siennas. The Kia Sedona is looking better and better for moi!

[Merc]

Body rust is also my big trigger to start looking for a new vehicle. The Sienna was our first Toyota and it’s lived up to its reputation of being dependable. I get most maintenance, i.e. oil changes, etc., done before they’re due, so it’s very sound mechanically. There isn’t any rust so far and it’s 10 years old.

I can remember when we were shopping for the Sienna in 2011. It was hard finding a used Sienna and the 2 year olds were so pricey that we decided to just buy a new one.

I prefer vans over pick up trucks because I think they’re more versatile. The Sienna is very spacious. I can seat up to 7 people or fold the rear seat down and remove the center seats and haul cargo. I understand the center seats on the 2021 Sienna can be pushed forward but can’t be removed.

My hybrid Highlander is our 2nd Toyota and is interesting. As long as the traction battery is charged and I stay below 40 MPH on level roads, I can cruise along on electric power only. The 4 wheel drive is attained through a 2nd electric motor on the rear axel. Combined gas and electric horsepower is 309 and it averages 25 MPG, but if you’re really good at feathering the accelerator, you can do much better. My lead-footed wife will go shopping and only get 22 MPG. I reset the computer and do errands and get 28 MPG. We have lots of hills around here. If I’m driving where it’s totally level, I can get 32 MPG on the open road and in stop and go traffic. I suspect that we’ll be seeing much higher gas prices by this summer so the hybrids might become the new future of auto transportation. I still can’t totally accept that all-electric cars are practical for long distance traveling.

[Merc]

Local Toyota dealership is charging a premium for leftover 20 Siennas and has a waiting list for 18 and 19 Siennas. The Kia Sedona is looking better and better for moi!

The Sedona has been improving over the years. My cousin has two Sedonas. I think one is a 2012 and the other is a 2017. He’s pretty happy with both of them and hasn’t experienced any major problems but the older van had some rusting problems that attacked the brakes and various hardware items.

[bdm]

I have the Toyota V8 5.7 Tundra and the plugs are hard to change also

[JimF]

Was it the Chevrolet Beretta that required the removal of the right-front tire to access the spark plugs through the wheel well?
Maybe not the Beretta, but there was some Chevy model that required removal.

[barretcreek]

Sunbeam Tiger had a small block Ford. Trap door under the passenger's feet to access the plugs. Would doubt Detroit did that.

[lyman]

I have the Toyota V8 5.7 Tundra and the plugs are hard to change also

my 2000 w/ V8 is a breeze,

and has been very reliable,

brine is starting to eat the underside a bit, but it still runs well at 205K

[Merc]

Was it the Chevrolet Beretta that required the removal of the right-front tire to access the spark plugs through the wheel well?
Maybe not the Beretta, but there was some Chevy model that required removal.

I had a 1995 Buick Roadmaster that came from the factory with a Corvette LT-1 V8 and it was easier to change some of the plugs through the wheel well. I think the Chevy equivalent was the Caprice.

[Merc]

my 2000 w/ V8 is a breeze,

and has been very reliable,

brine is starting to eat the underside a bit, but it still runs well at 205K

This guy put over 1 million miles on a Tundra.

https://pressroom.toyota.com/million-mile-tundra-2016/#:~:text=The%20million-mile%20Tundra%2C%20a%202007%20model%20year%2C%20wa s,trips%20from%20his%20home%20to%20North%20Dakota% 20

[Mike in NC]

TimF, was that the Chevrolet V8 Monza? I think that has a small block V8 as an option for a while.

- - - Updated - - -

I was an auto mechanic during the 70's. I remember working on this one particular Turbo 911 Porsche. To get to some of the spark plugs, you had to take the motor mount loose and drop the engine down six inches or to get reach the hard to get to those "trouble" spark plugs.

[Tom Trevor]

Yes we had a Monza with V8 . Took bolts out of motor mounts Then jack up engine to get to some plugs.

[lyman]

the mother of a friend in college had a Monza v8,

neat idea to shove the V8 in that small car,,


but a PITA to service

[Merc]

I had the 1995 Roadmaster and my wife had a 1998 Chevy Venture van and many times, they would both be in the dealership for repairs at the same time. I swore I’d never buy a GM car again. The Roadmaster never ran right and used to flood the interior with condensate water from under the dash board. I took it to several dealerships who charged me big bucks to disassemble the ductwork and replace various parts. Nothing they did fixed the flooding problem. I was given a set of Roadmaster service manuals that I read cover to cover and discovered that the heat-AC door in the ductwork that directs air over the AC and heater core had to be re-set if the battery was ever disconnected. This was accomplished by pulling and re-installing a fuse while the ignition was turned on. Not one technician ever knew that or obviously never read the manual. There it was, in black and white. I traded the Roadmaster in on a 2004 Grand Marquis and traded the biggest POS ever (the Venture) in on the 2011 Sienna. We still have both of them and I think they are two of the most durable cars on the road.

[lyman]

when Mrs Lyman and I got married, she had an even bigger POS than you had Merc,,

a 1980 Buick Skylark,
X body (like the Chevy Citation)
threw a belt, on the coldest night of the year, but that went back on after about an hour of busting knuckles and cussing,
some mornings it did not want to start, traced that to the fuel filters, once they were changed, it got better,

and the V6 (standard 2.8 based model GM had in everything) ran fine,, but it took 3 extensions and 2 of the flex joints to get the socket to turn with a wrench for one or 2 of the back plugs,
(and considerable blood loss and cussing)


once we got in approved for the house loan and got settled we traded that off for a Toyota FX (good little car)

[JB White]

Late 60's Mopars with a 383 , 440, or 426 could be a real PIA to get at some plugs. A Rube Goldberg contraption made up with extensions and universals could usually get in there.
Changing the battery in a Chrysler Sebring involves going through the drivers side wheel well into the bumper area.
Some 60's Fords required cutting through the wheel well to access the heater core. Of course the core isn't a scheduled maintenance item.

Some newer cars now require a computer to do a brake job. The calipers must be ordered to retract before removal. Doing it the old school way will blow 'em and it could be as much as $800 a corner for replacements.

[togor]

JB,

Learned the procedure on a '69 Monaco with a 383. Can imagine the rear plugs on a big block in a B-Body took a lot of patience.

Re: rear plugs on transverse V-6s. On Chevy Impalas of the post 2000-era one actually has to loosen a brace and tilt the motor forward to create back side clearance. Even then the passenger side plug by the alternator is blind. Good times.

[Merc]

Changing the battery on a Dodge Journey requires removing the inner fender. Advance Auto Parts usually offers free battery installation. I was there once when the salesman was telling his customer what was involved and why he wasn’t going to do it.

My cousin bought a used Buick Lucerne a few years ago. Nice car but it soon needed a new battery. He gave up looking for it and called his mechanic who told him to look under the rear seat.

[dryheat]

There are two guys in my neighborhood who work on cars for a hobby. I can't imagine a worse fate. There's a Utube guy who is a Bush craft instructor. He said, he worked on cars all week and his hobby was cars. The light came on; 'I'm busting my knuckles all week for a living and then I'm busting my knuckles on the weekend for fun'. He got into bush craft.
I thought jets were hard to work on(grinding down a 9/16's spanner thin), but cars can be just as aggravating. When I got out of the Navy I was done with mechanics. I can fix stuff. The extension/swivel reminds me of my buddy who changed the plugs on his girlfriends Vette. He punched out a hole in the wheel well and put together a combination of extensions and swivels to get at the plugs.