Loading 45-70 for trapdoor

[kj47]

Is a drop tube necessary for black powder or tamp it and seat a bullet firmly. The powder is triple 7 ffg.

[lyman]

maybe,
not knowing the weight of the load,

[RCS]

I could never get 70 grs of black powder in a 45-70 case using a cut-off 45-70 case or powder measure but a tube will or
should do the job. I do remember using about 6 grains of 4759 in the bottom of each 45-70 case then load the black
powder. Bore would stay clean

[Major Tom]

When loading black powder I use a 24 inch drop tube, I then pack the powder tightly and seat a 500 grain bullet on top which will compact the powder even more. It is essential that the powder in packed solid! The recoil fro a 70 grain 500 weight bullet is punishing! I like to load 60 grains of BP then a 405 grain bullet. I do have a powder compress tool to tightly pack BP.

[kj47]

Thanks guys, the load will be 60-65 grs triple 7 ffg w/405 gr bullet. Also have clean shot bp substitute that I bought 15 yrs ago& never used. Read on BP sites that this stuff had low velocities & was not accurate

[cowtownscout]

Triple 7 is not supposed to be compressed please read about it.

[kj47]

Just about out of bp. Picked up triple 7 read that just set bullet on powder, not to compress. Never used triple 7 in carthriges,

[Major Tom]

I have Triple 7 too, never used it yet. Look at loading manual for load info. I would say that the proper load would not be compressed. Keep us informed!

[jon_norstog]

I use Swiss 2FG. A measured 70 gr just about fills the case, then I put a felt wad on top. I'm shooting a 385 gr bullet I cast up myself, 1:20 tin-lead greased with bore butter. I can seat the bullets just deeper than the top groove. The powder ALWAYS goes off when I pull the trigger.

The bore butter is a good lube but you don't want to carry the shells in your pocket.

jn

[Sunray]

Only ever loaded a cast 405 .45-70 for a TD Carbine. TD Carbines don't/didn't use 70 grains of BP. Doing that hurts to shoot. Thus ended The Great BP Cartridge Experiment.
BP is loaded in grains by volume. A drop tube is supposedly how that's done.
Then I found the Lyman BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. Tells you everything you need to know and isn't stupid expensive direct from Lyman.

[BudT]

Any case, any primer I don't size the case if fired in my Marlin just a light bell at the mouth. 60 grains of most any BP 2FG a 30 vege card over the powder, no drop tube, tap the rim of the case to settle the powder put the card in and 1/4 inch compression set the bullet and crimp. It's pretty tough to get 70 grains in a case but Winchester cases come closest and I can get 65 grains in those. I'm going to work up a duplex load to help the burn. I cast my own 405's with a Lee and soft lead then lube size in a Lyman sizer at .458 and use a slightly altered NRA 50-50 with Bore Butter and or bees wax, depends on how hard or soft I want it. Shoots good. I would like to try Swiss one of these days.

[JB White]

Similar here. No drop tube. Fill the case with whatever it will hold allowing the bullet to fit with only slight compression. Weigh that then throw charges. Light crimp for storage and transportation purposes.
Clean shot/American Pioneer Powder never gave me any problems in any BPC. Used it in Smith Carbine loads too. As well as front stuffers. Then again I don't seek long range-benchrest results nor have i invested in more equipment than needed for my i tended puropses.
Short or intermediate range and hitting what I want is good enough for a weekend afternoon.

Thinking....I did have a problem with APP in 45 Colt revolver. Had some case setback where the fired case often dragged against the recoil shield. Attributed it to the slower burn not expanding the case quickly enough. Faster powder was the remedy there.

[jon_norstog]

...... I would like to try Swiss one of these days.

I've used Goex and Swiss in my 45-70s, 65 to 70 gr compressed & standard primers and a 385gr cast bullet (lead has gotten pricey lately). The Swiss loads had a stronger bark than the Goex... When my brother got his cheap Chrony, I was able to get readings: both powders were really consistent between shots, but the Goex loads were in the 1100 fps range and the Swiss were a little over 1300.

Buffalo Arms sells the Swiss. They are in Sandpoint ID, so I pick up powder there when I'm visiting family. They have a good price on lead too.

jn

[BudT]

I've used Goex and Swiss in my 45-70s, 65 to 70 gr compressed & standard primers and a 385gr cast bullet (lead has gotten pricey lately). The Swiss loads had a stronger bark than the Goex... When my brother got his cheap Chrony, I was able to get readings: both powders were really consistent between shots, but the Goex loads were in the 1100 fps range and the Swiss were a little over 1300.

Buffalo Arms sells the Swiss. They are in Sandpoint ID, so I pick up powder there when I'm visiting family. They have a good price on lead too.

jn

I've got both Kick and GOEX along with Pyrodex, Shockey's Gold and another sub to piddle around with. I've never chronographed any BP loads.....yet. Swiss is supposed to be pretty good stuff and there's another one that's been mentioned but I cant recall it right now. I might take a drive up to Buffalo Arms when the snow is mostly gone to pick up some stuff and look around for another home. I loaded up some 69 grain loads in Win cases the other day and took them out in the desert, seemed to shoot pretty good. A duplex load will clean up the barrel some so I might load some up to test when I pick the rifle up from the smith in Helena. Be nice to not lose skin in the loading gate and be better at feeding, I hate a rifle that's not reliable in feeding. Once I get my 405 grain load I'll work on a Lee 350 grain load. I would like to hunt with the BP loads.
BudT

[jon_norstog]

.. A duplex load will clean up the barrel some so I might load some up to test when I pick the rifle up from the smith in Helena. Be nice to not lose skin in the loading gate and be better at feeding, I hate a rifle that's not reliable in feeding. Once I get my 405 grain load I'll work on a Lee 350 grain load. I would like to hunt with the BP loads.
BudT

My rolling block has a barrel with "whitworth" deep-groove rifling. Look in the muzzle the hole is almost a hexagon. The narrow lands poke up out of the fouling and grip the bullet just fine no matter how many shots you fire. My 1884 trapdoor has a mint 3-groove barrel and fouling doesn't seem to bother it either. So I don't bother with duplex loads or cleaning between shots. The rolling block has a 24" barrel and burns 70 gr of 2fg just fine - it is my elk hunting back-up gun. It just points and shoots naturally - you see something you shoot something.

jn

[Pete D.]

I use the old “carbine load” in my 1873 TD carbine: a 405 grain FN bullet, 55 grains of FFg,, a Walters wad/grease cookie over the powder and a modern filler (Pufflon) to the case mouth.
The big Browning BPCR gets as much FFg as I can fit (about 63 grains) dropped through a tube, a grease cookie, and a Lyman Postell bullet.