Carbine quest...consumated...?! (Model 1870 carbine)

[Lead Snowstorm]

Some of you were kind enough to follow my earlier thread (http://www.jouster2.com/forums/showthread.php?72030-The-quest-for-a-carbine-GB-auctions) on the subject of trapdoor carbines. Well, a carbine presented itself, but certainly not one I was expecting! With some expert help (for which this post also serves as payment of consultant fee :icon_lol:) I took the plunge.

https://i.imgur.com/hED0EYUh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qtofrs8h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iDvHtcph.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/6bXXsLth.jpg

Battered and scarred - an old repaired crack through the wrist is first well seen above.

https://i.imgur.com/l45ournh.jpg

The hammer holds only on full cock, although I can feel where it *should* catch at half.

https://i.imgur.com/FDF2ii0h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZwhgZa7h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GBg00UNh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/LXQYStgh.jpg

HOLY BUGGERED SCREW BATMAN! :icon_scratch:

https://i.imgur.com/2QnmBkah.jpg

The little slider goes up and down with no resistance at all. If the sight ladder is vertical, it simply drops under gravity to the bottom.

https://i.imgur.com/ipOMYI4h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yUEeBUbh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MJBHYEyh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yQCVtCCh.jpg

Alert to skullduggery, but...so far, seems good.

https://i.imgur.com/E8NDRajh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1b6g75Kh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wnvBlflh.jpg

Not 100% sure I'm measuring the right things; 100% sure I need a better caliper. I got this one because it was the only one I could find at the time with non-metal blades to be sure I didn't scratch stuff up.

https://i.imgur.com/z8HSPVAh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/b5QVyqdh.jpg

Can't make out the firing proof.

https://i.imgur.com/79NQDCVh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9axzA7ph.jpg

Seems even narrower than it should...?

https://i.imgur.com/1w8kohrh.jpg

The hinge pin is loose...will eventually get it back into place.

https://i.imgur.com/fN2bZMph.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/s2ZyLfmh.jpg

In juuuuust the right light you can juuuuust make out about the upper back quarter of the ESA cartouche. The wrist cracks go in through the area.

https://i.imgur.com/KcR47tlh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GsHBn6Ih.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/j7CpciUh.jpg

The front base of the saddle bar isn't quite flush, but I think that may be because the wrist crack has ever so slightly altered the geometry of things...?

https://i.imgur.com/4ixT5Wch.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/XWB9A0lh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qjAMM98h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qmhHDU2h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qV6eE4Yh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/l9qtTmTh.jpg

As beat-up as the outside is, the bore is actually not all that bad.

https://i.imgur.com/Lqgj9oqh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WBBLxs0h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RhbrJ3fh.jpg

We arrive at the point of some concern - many extra photos were requested of the seller. Something has obviously gone on with the front sight. It ain't brass, and it looks like the entire base has been re-attached at some point. But at least it does look like it is a separate blade pinned into place. Another indicator that this gun has been there and done that over the last 150 years.

https://i.imgur.com/414J40eh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/l0Px98Oh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/goRMn1Yh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WYj1ld2h.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pGroYELh.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nD98Gtih.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/vfB3eLch.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N2T6xLch.jpg

Well, there ya have it - let the games begin!

[kj47]

Not an expert, but looks good to me. Congrats.

[Dick Hosmer]

EXCELLENT pics and a GREAT buy! Am very happy for you! One of those cases of being in the right place at the right time with the right seller.

That, my friends, is a REAL 1870 Carbine. Yes, it's seen a lot of service and is certainly not a closet queen. But it's REAL - which is what counts on rare models!

If yours, or one you are looking at, doesn't look like that, you have "trouble in River City."

The pin will be no problem, unless getting the stock off is an issue, as in if the epoxy used to fix the crack wasn't isolated with grease or waxed paper.

If it were mine I'd probably put some stain on the rubbed spots in the wood.

The front sight appears to have been reattached at some point, but is a much more believable repair than mine.

Again, congratulations on filling a super-hard hole in the collection.

[Lead Snowstorm]

Thank you sir! Your encouragement and expertise are 99% responsible for me snagging this one, that’s for sure.

[Dick Hosmer]

You're very welcome.

In looking closer at the front sight, I believe it may be a later one from an early 1873, which would also explain the steel blade (which was originally brass on the 1870). While it isn't "right", I do not see it as a major fault, at all. That gun was used HARD, and a repair such as that is not the least bit out of character, since EVERY other rare bit/feature is present and correct, even if heavily worn.

You are in exactly the same situation as I am, having an absolutely correct piece with a funky front sight.

Naturally, a funky front sight on any 'carbine' is probably THE number one flag that you may be looking at a cut rifle, but, what do you say if the entire rest of the gun is 100% correct and un-messed with? I have never seen this point mentioned before, but that WAS a new front sight design. Perhaps there was flaw in the initial attachment process that caused them to pop off?

[Kragrifle]

Great buy! Saw the auction on Gunbroker! Front site was a concern but Dick covered that well. Congratulations!

[Dick Hosmer]

Great buy! Saw the auction on Gunbroker! Front site was a concern but Dick covered that well. Congratulations!

No, a FANTASTIC buy!

Another acquaintance also just acquired one as well. It's definitely nicer, but he paid/traded $8,000 to get it.

Speaking of acquaintances, and friends, the collecting world suffered a HUGE (pun intended) loss yesterday, "Big Mitch" Luksich, a dealer based in Sonoma CA, but well-known nationwide, passed away yesterday from degenerative heart disease. We were friends for over 50 years. The collecting world will not be the same without him.

[Lead Snowstorm]

No, a FANTASTIC buy!

Another acquaintance also just acquired one as well. It's definitely nicer, but he paid/traded $8,000 to get it.

Speaking of acquaintances, and friends, the collecting world suffered a HUGE (pun intended) loss yesterday, "Big Mitch" Luksich, a dealer based in Sonoma CA, but well-known nationwide, passed away yesterday from degenerative heart disease. We were friends for over 50 years. The collecting world will not be the same without him.

Wow, I looked him up and found, among many other references, transcripts of some of his courtroom testimony in forensics. He sounds like an excellent expert witness in addition to many other accomplishments. RIP.

[Dick Hosmer]

People who never met Mitch cannot appreciate the man. He was deeply involved in the infamous Zodiac murder case as a lab tech for the San Francisco PD. He was a giant of a man, 6'7 or 6'8, and, before he lost weight, well over 300 pounds. I remember one time I was leaning over talking to someone at a gunshow table and Mitch stopped by and draped his hand over my shoulder. Felt like a grizzly bear's paw. He was a raconteur par excellence, knew everyone and had stories about each of them. A gourmet, perhaps a gourmand - and an absolute walking encyclopedia of gun knowledge. He was a staunch pro-Trump Republican. Almost always in a good humor, and would giggle like a little kid when something tickled him. He was just a LOT of fun to be around and will be greatly missed.