Steel Case Ammunition

[Art]

I recently posted two videos regarding failures of rifles (Tanker Garand and M1 Carbine) due completely, or partially to poor quality steel case ammunition. I only shoot quality brass ammunition or my own reloads in my mil surps. The exception are my com bloc rifles in 7.62x39 or 7.62x54r as these rifles are manufactured to use the steel stuff. Even with them I have become selective with the steel case ammunition I feed them.

Some cut above steel case ammunition brands in 7.62x39mm I have found are:

Sellier & Bellot (if you can find it) - Very accurate ammunition from a quality manufacturer.

Hornady Steel Match - Eastern European Berdan primed steel cases loaded by Hornady with SST bullets. Excellent stuff at a very good price, but, again, not always available. In the past I've found it for as little as $30.00 for a box of 50. When I find this I buy it on the spot.

Barnaul - Also marketed as Brown Bear or Silver Bear, it is also the ammunition sold by Academy under their proprietary Monarch brand. This stuff is usually available at very popular prices. IMHO the best of the Rooskie ammo.

Russian Milsurp - Sold by a variety of sources and distinguishable by its olive green cases, red sealer around the bullets and primers, and Russian/Soviet manufacturer codes and dates. I see this very seldom now.

I stay away Wolf or Red Army Standard because I find it is just too inconsistent, and avoid Tula ammo like the plague.

For emphasis, I would never, ever shoot any steel case in any rifle other than com bloc manufactured, this especially applies to M1s, M1 Carbines or AR platforms.

My devalued $.05. Your mileage may vary.

[lyman]

on a whim, I ran a 50 rounds of Tula 45 acp thru my M1A1,
no issues at all,

did notice it ran slower than when I use GI ball or equivalent,


loads of steel case USGI ammo went thru thompsons, so I was not really worried about the cases ,

did not notice it was any dirtier than GI,, but then again several mags of ball went thru it afterwards

[Art]

on a whim, I ran a 50 rounds of Tula 45 acp thru my M1A1,
no issues at all,

did notice it ran slower than when I use GI ball or equivalent,


loads of steel case USGI ammo went thru thompsons, so I was not really worried about the cases ,

did not notice it was any dirtier than GI,, but then again several mags of ball went thru it afterwards

You peaked my interest and I found an interesting article on steel case .45 auto in WWII. It seems that there was an unusual malfunction that rarely occurred with some Thompsons and steel case ammo. A round would partially chamber and if the soldier didn't check the chamber and just pulled the bolt back and pulled the trigger the bolt would drive a new cartridge in to the first cartridge and cause a large Kaboom. It was discovered that some Thompsons had slightly undersize chambers which caused the chambering problem with steel case ammo. The problem didn't exist with brass case ammo because it was more malleable. The problem was remediated and the steel case ammo continued to be used.

I'm sure modern production steel cased .45 ACP is made to a standard that eliminates the problem. Your gun obviously has no issues with the batch of Tula steel cased ammo you used.

[lyman]

there was one country in South America that made some steel cased ammo as well,
cannot remember which,, I think I have a few hundred rounds in my ammo stash,

runs well thru a 1911, have not tried it in the Thompson yet,


not posting this to be contrary to your thoughts and opinion Art,, I do agree with you,
I generally stay away from any Combloc (and esp Soviet\Russian) steel case stuff in my firearms,

I only have one Russian rifle left, my SVT, that does not care if it is steel cased,, but honestly, I think what I have left is all brass for that rifle

[RCS]

Was steel cased 45 ACP issued to all overseas combat areas during WW2 ?


RE: Always thought all TSMG barrel chambers were oversized since the Model 1928A1

If you order a new 10 inch Thompson barrel from Green River they offer a oversized
chamber or a standard 45 ACP chamber

[Art]

Was steel cased 45 ACP issued to all overseas combat areas during WW2 ?


RE: Always thought all TSMG barrel chambers were oversized since the Model 1928A1

If you order a new 10 inch Thompson barrel from Green River they offer a oversized
chamber or a standard 45 ACP chamber

I doubt if all of the ammo issued overseas was steel case simply because of the large amount of brass case ammunition on hand.

I'm sure most Thompsons, especially M1 Thompsons had oversize chambers. The problems mentioned were with a hand full of individual Thompsons with minimum size chambers. In other words it was an anomaly when it came to steel case ammo.

The video on the Tanker that blew up due to overpressure Tula ammunition and the mild side (but functional) .45 A.C.P. Lyman used in his M1A1 are examples of the variation in quality of Tula brand ammunition, especially in non com bloc calibers.

[lyman]

I don't think for a second all the issued ammo was steel cases,

Evansville made a ton, I had (and sold it all as collectibles, except for some loose rounds that had rusted), a can or 2 of the stuff , but I never shot any,

interesting thread from Jouster

http://www.jouster2.com/forums/showthread.php?44682-EC-42-Steel-Cased-Ammo



if Evansville made 3 Billion, wonder what the production numbers were for Frankford, Remington, LC etc etc

IIRC, some 30.06 and 30 carbine were also made of steel

[Art]

I don't think for a second all the issued ammo was steel cases,

Evansville made a ton, I had (and sold it all as collectibles, except for some loose rounds that had rusted), a can or 2 of the stuff , but I never shot any,

interesting thread from Jouster

http://www.jouster2.com/forums/showthread.php?44682-EC-42-Steel-Cased-Ammo



if Evansville made 3 Billion, wonder what the production numbers were for Frankford, Remington, LC etc etc

IIRC, some 30.06 and 30 carbine were also made of steel

Some names on that thread that are gone but not forgotten!!

[RCS]

Just a thought, but I would think that steel case 45 ACP would rust badly in the pacific area combat areas.

The 30 M1 carbine steel cased is common to find but don't know if issued outside of the USA ?

[barretcreek]

Remember steel 30-06 when I was a kid, maybe seeing .45 also.

My Kimber GM did not like WW 'Forged' 9mm. Sent two boxes back and sold one I'd forgotten.

[RCS]

here is a photo of the following:




left: steel case 7,62mm headstamp LC 54 with NATO cross

middle AP 7,62mm headstamp LC 54

right: 22/7,62mm headstamp WCC 534942949430

[Tuna]

In late 1943 it was decided we were heading for a huge brass shortage. Copper was in demand like never before. The military then decided in case the shortage did happen, ( it never did) that steel case be made as an acceptable replacement for brass. Since we were at war there was no reason not to try. Steel case had drawbacks. When fired at night it was large amounts of metal particles would come out the bore glowing. Not good at night for sure. While the military felt it was caused by the powders being used and changed them out. The problem was lessened but not stopped. But ammo was needed so they contracted Evens Chrysler to made the carbine ammo as they were already making the .45acp. Billions and billons of rounds were made and all went right into spam cans. It was never issued to our troops as no shortage of brass happened. Steel case stayed here in the states and was finally approved for training by the Marines in early 1946. We gave away most of it to our allies when they received weapons and of course, steel case ammo.

[Grumpy ole man]

Steel case .45 will break the extractor on M1911 as I broke a few on mine.
GOM

[togor]

And then there were the steel pennies. I have an uncirculated set from the 3 US mints, got it as a kid from my father.

[RCS]

They used cardboard/soybean mixture for the license plates to save the steel too4944149442

[barretcreek]

22/7.62

? Never heard of that.

[RCS]

More of the story: These license plates belonged to a friend of my father. He was a policeman from 1930
to 1951 when he retired. The 95 was his badge number and 934 was his house address. When he retired
he was given a choice of a new watch or he could keep his service revolver. He kept the revolver and once
in awhile when we asked, he would show it to us kids. He died in Arizona at age 95 years old