Found myself an 1868...

[Lead Snowstorm]

Found it at an out-of-the-way (for me, at least) auction house and just had to have it. Of course, the auction house being from New York, they insisted on sending it through an FFL - sigh - so I finally just got it today. This poor old rifle has suffered more than it's fair share of neglect, I am sad to say...but I think it might just have a few surprises for us yet...!

https://i.imgur.com/eIxxSCk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/I3jChFd.jpg

Pretty darn pitted all over the barrel, buttplate, trigger guard, lockplate...oof.

https://i.imgur.com/3T1A39g.jpg

If you squint, you can read the lockplate. But only if you squint.

https://i.imgur.com/7XIySCg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lXjYt1T.jpg

Sharp eyes will notice, among other things, that the tang appears to be cracked at the screw. Another sigh. There also seems to be some odd inletting of the stock going on just ahead of the receiver...

https://i.imgur.com/bJZcWGb.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fK1looz.jpg

But wait, what else might those sharp eyes notice? (Besides the paint spatter. The previous owner is very much on my ****-list.)

https://i.imgur.com/RaVYBgc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/WUMh1js.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/alFRAX2.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/w6YaIBf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7YTLkiW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Eb3poLL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/jCR0cjR.jpg

Searching through the TD Collector's board, I noted with some interest that the #25 1869 cadet barrelled receiver is out there somewhere, and went through Ebay back in 2015...so if anyone has any intel on its whereabouts, let me know!

https://i.imgur.com/fJgDERY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TfIwXzj.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/LXw8e9K.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oPJtI1f.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BTLaabL.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gdsLyC8.jpg

As pitted as the outside is...I think this bore is almost as nice as my 1866's...someday I may see how much is frosting and how much is just dust. It actually looks nicer in person.

https://i.imgur.com/LRcP1z7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/r8tSvhv.jpg

Hopefully the experts can chime in and I can get more pictures of any parts of interest that I've missed...and we can find out if I got taken, or if we now have turned up 22 of our elusive 68/68s.

[Johnny P]

Appears the barrel bands are on backwards. Screw heads to the right, and normally had a U on the upper edge indicating "UP".

[Lead Snowstorm]

They most definitely are. The U’s are still visible under the putting on both. I’m unsure, at this point, if I dare trying to get them off, or if it’ll do more harm than good.

Amusingly, after 150-odd years of these guns’ existences, I think there are more on backwards (both trapdoors and Krags) than correctly oriented.

[Fred]

Lead Snowstorm, wow!
what did you have to give for it?

[Fred]

Message sent to you.

[Lead Snowstorm]

Lead Snowstorm, wow!
what did you have to give for it?

My winning bid was $1600, although as far as I could tell during the auction someone threw in a bid of $1700 and then retracted it. (As an absentee bidder I think things worked in my favor since I couldn't see how much of a golf-ball impression the barrel was doing, LOL.) But, of course, tack on about 25% more for buyer's premium/shipping/fees, etc.

The rifle was described absolutely correctly, I give them full marks for that, although maybe a bit generous on the condition description. It was lot #10.

https://www.southbayauctions.com/Sale350/HTMLCAT.HTM

[Dick Hosmer]

Once again, I sincerely commend you on your EXCELLENT photography!!! 80% of the photos posted on Q&A boards are such utter crap.

You are correct about the known total of 22, as far as I know.

Interesting to note that yours too has the 'variant' rear sight (lacking the 900 yard line and having higher-placed graduations) which, as far as I know, had not previously been described until I obtained my #62 and posted the information on Al Frasca's page.

Yours is the lowest occurrence of that sight which I have recorded, and Fred's #127 is the highest. The intervening rifles I've recorded either have the "standard" sight or type is unknown. I'm assuming that the variant came first, but it is impossible to tell if the few 'out-of-sequence' arms had their sight replaced, or if they were just not assembled in numerical order (which of course was normal at SA). In any event it is a very nice little 'out-of-the-ordinary' quirk!

Welcome to the "club"!!!

And let's all look for more - a few must still be out there, and don't forget that finding genuine low-numbered 1869s will help further define the limit.

[Dick Hosmer]

They most definitely are. The U’s are still visible under the putting on both. I’m unsure, at this point, if I dare trying to get them off, or if it’ll do more harm than good.

Amusingly, after 150-odd years of these guns’ existences, I think there are more on backwards (both trapdoors and Krags) than correctly oriented.


Since they are the clamping style you should be able to ultimately achieve the swap by getting the screws loose with solvent. If it were mine, I'd fix them. It is the non-clamping style which - when forced - can leave nasty scratches on the stock.

[Lead Snowstorm]

Once again, I sincerely commend you on your EXCELLENT photography!!! 80% of the photos posted on Q&A boards are such utter crap.

You are correct about the known total of 22, as far as I know.

Interesting to note that yours too has the 'variant' rear sight (lacking the 900 yard line and having higher-placed graduations) which, as far as I know, had not previously been described until I obtained my #62 and posted the information on Al Frasca's page.

Yours is the lowest occurrence of that sight which I have recorded, and Fred's #127 is the highest. The intervening rifles I've recorded either have the "standard" sight or type is unknown. I'm assuming that the variant came first, but it is impossible to tell if the few 'out-of-sequence' arms had their sight replaced, or if they were just not assembled in numerical order (which of course was normal at SA). In any event it is a very nice little 'out-of-the-ordinary' quirk!

Welcome to the "club"!!!

And let's all look for more - a few must still be out there, and don't forget that finding genuine low-numbered 1869s will help further define the limit.

Thank you sir! Yes, the photography is a bit of a hobby as well - not so much the camera/lighting per se, as I just take pictures with my phone camera...but more the appreciation/demonstration of interesting features and details. I started with a blue pad for the background. Fine for my more modern synthetic stuff, but aesthetically I came to think that green really provided a better background, especially for the dark red-brown of an old oil finish wooden stock. (It's actually a piece of fabric for a billiard table!)

I've been hunting about for a '69 dated block as well, and will keep my eyes open. I seem to recall someone posting (I think on TDC's bulletin board) about SN #161 or thereabouts with an 1869 block (and, of course, one of the examples below #133 has a '69 replacement block, IIRC).

[Dick Hosmer]

Finding a '69 dated block is no problem - I'd like to score (on the cheap!) a 90% '69-dated rifle to use for a group photo with 62 and 25755. That's the only rifle I'm actually looking for - otherwise, it's time to thin the herd. I've already parted with my Sharps-sighted Long-range, my Type I M1870, and my Hotchkiss Army rifle.

[Fred]

Yep, the better top notch conditioned rifles are the tough ones to find. They take longer to find but are worth the investment.
Dick, I’m going to try and bird dog a nice and sharp 1869 for you. I had number 216 in my sights that looked nice but the owner wouldn’t answer my correspondence to him.

[Dick Hosmer]

Yep, the better top notch conditioned rifles are the tough ones to find. They take longer to find but are worth the investment.
Dick, I’m going to try and bird dog a nice and sharp 1869 for you. I had number 216 in my sights that looked nice but the owner wouldn’t answer my correspondence to him.

Fred, I greatly appreciate the effort, but do NOT go too far down that road - it's basically wishful thinking on my part - and I'd have to steal it, can't really afford to buy any guns just now. Thanks.

[Fred]

I understand Dick. But Maybe one such as you’re seeking will show up in a garage sale or at the tail end of an auction when everyone has already run out of money!
It’s happened before.

[Lead Snowstorm]

Alright. I equipped myself with Kroil and some liquid courage, and got this old warhorse apart. I'm happy to say the bands are back in the correct orientation, and without any terrible marring of the screws!

A few pics of the innards..but not with the good photo backdrop. I used my kids' thick playmats as a working surface and backdrop. Don't tell my wife.

Some of that odd inletting of the stock (not my best photos, honestly...blame the liquid courage):

https://i.imgur.com/lcyh2iG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hPkR7PZ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YGkYBlr.jpg

You can see a seam where the tang break occurred:

https://i.imgur.com/EoqscIw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/pY5RkNH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YrAlos8.jpg

The traditional 1868 witness marks are present at the barrel-receiver junction:

https://i.imgur.com/vfM4Doy.jpg

This barrel was originally armory bright:

https://i.imgur.com/3ouA4J8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/meoP7L0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MHyIz63.jpg

The lockplate:

https://i.imgur.com/2v6OMTo.jpg

Bunch of different letters on the parts.

https://i.imgur.com/EO7sx66.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/yyCSRFF.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wx0uKg8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/qxSbtqy.jpg

[Fred]

Excellent photos.
It looks to me as if somebody at one time widened the stock to accept a Wide receiver of a 45-70.

[Dick Hosmer]

Shouldn't be too hard to find a decent 68 with a matching degree of wear, minus the buggering, and simply swap stocks. You could recover part of your money by just re-selling the leftovers. There's nothing unique to the wood, so your "sin" would be minor and forgivable.:1948: