View Full Version : Verdigris and storage query
About 10 years ago I thought I was coming into an Enfield. I was so sure of it that I went ahead and loaded some ammo for it fully expecting to shoot it all within a year. Well, it fell through, so I simply stored the .303 on the shelf. I have since come into an Enfield and planned to shoot it this upcoming weekend, so I went to load some onto clips for the trek. I noticed verdigris where the bullet meets the case...BUT only on one particular load. I had used two different powders ten years ago in hopes of proving one load better than the other. I inspected all of the ammo and found that the IMR 4895 ammo had no verdigris. Whereas, the VV N140 loaded ammo had the verdigris on about 25% of the loaded ammo. All my powders came from Powder Valley, so I doubt one was much older than the other (but not sure). NOTE: the two different loads were loaded within a couple weeks of each other in 2011. They used the same cases, primers and bullets. The only varying factor was the powder choice. They were even stored in the same MTM Case Gard ammo box the entire time together. Has someone come across this? And should I reevaluate using Vihtavuori powders?
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toss the ammo,
I had some N140 and N540 that I bought long ago to test for Service Rifle
loaded some rounds with each, didn't like the accuracy, and set them aside
the powder got funky, as in popped the plastic top and smelled of Chlorine,
the ammo did what you mentioned,
I disposed of it all,
Any chance of pulling bullets to see if they'll clean up? And maybe pop the primers and see if brass is recoverable?
Any chance of pulling bullets to see if they'll clean up? And maybe pop the primers and see if brass is recoverable?
Personally I wouldn't hesitate pulling and tumbling the bullets. If much corrosion is present it would be easy to see.
I would not trust the brass though. Internal corrosion/pitting would be hard to see and not worth the effort or risk. My .02 worth.
Yes, Allen, I have been searching/reading on the topic this AM. Sounds like I will chuck the brass. At least it is PPU, not Lapua! I have had success recovering and cleaning up old .30-06 Silver-Tip bullets in the past. Now, I have to search other ammo I may have used N140 in, in roughly the same timeframe.
I did pull a few, and they had that blue green on the bottom
these were 223, and my collet leaves rings on them (and I have a large lot of brass) so I just tossed them
303 may clean up , I didn't see a need to clean up and recover 30 or 40 rounds
Follow-up. After extensive review, I have 390 rounds, in .303, 7.62x54 and 6.5x55 that I loaded with VV N140. Between 2008 and 2015. I doubt I could get that many rounds out of a single pound of powder, but I simply cannot tell which loads have the bad powder. This has turned costly. The majority of the Russian and Swedish loads used Lapua brass. For simplicity's sake, I think I'll keep to my proven IMR 4064 and 4895.
pull and tumble them,, see what comes clean,
you may be able to get a few more firings out of them
This is interesting....I have pulled 390 bullets of three different calibers. Some bullets needed tumbling, some did not (just a wipe down). Ruined only three or so in the extraction process (Hornady cam bullet puller). All the brass will be tossed. The photo at the top of this rant shows how much verdigris was oozing from the VV N140-loaded rounds. I noticed that this IS ONLY BECAUSE those rounds were stored bullet down. Out of all the other 390 rounds pulled (all stored bullet up), only the initial ones stored bullet down showed this level of verdigris. Most showed nothing, until I pulled the bullet and dumped the powder. A quick look with a flashlight showed the verdigris inside, with powder kernels attached to walls of shells. Sometimes the verdigris appearing on the bullet bases. Long story, short...I think it would be advantageous to store a percentage of each load bullet down, so if there is a bad reaction, it appears more readily to the eye. Crap, this was expensive! The majority of tossed brass is Lapua.
Live and learn. Good info for others too.
As far as expense, you can't put a price on your eyes.
JohnMOhio
10-29-2021, 12:05
It is my understanding that this occurs because of handling the components. If you notice, you will not find this on any factory ammo. No handling of the components during assembly. If you wish to reload ammo for long term storage, use some surgical gloves.
It is my understanding that this occurs because of handling the components. If you notice, you will not find this on any factory ammo. No handling of the components during assembly. If you wish to reload ammo for long term storage, use some surgical gloves.
curious how handling matters, since in the case I mentioned, I never touched the powder or inside the brass cases,
reloading done in an insulated room, kept well within the tolerances of temp and humidity,
JohnMOhio
10-30-2021, 07:01
I am sure you touched the bullets. Oil deposit from you hand, difference between metal, copper coated bullets up against the brass case. Where do you see this appear. I have only seen it where he bullet contacts the case. It is after all a chemical process.
I am sure you touched the bullets. Oil deposit from you hand, difference between metal, copper coated bullets up against the brass case. Where do you see this appear. I have only seen it where he bullet contacts the case. It is after all a chemical process.
I have, and have seen bullets that had some color change (really just a shade variation) from the finger oils over time, but that was more of a tarnish,
not the level of verdigris or corrosion that Liam and I had using that powder (in my case I know the powder broke down or spoiled)
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