View Full Version : Old times
Just for fun, I ramped back about fifty pages. I remember some of the names.
Go back 50 pages on the oher forums like the M1, M14 and reloading if you really want to see old timers and sage comments.
Go back 50 pages on the other forums like the M1, M14 and reloading if you really want to see old timers and sage comments.
Last week I was on the shooters Forum when a moderator started talking about what happens to brass when formed, I suggested we think about it and then he suggested everyone knows. And then I suggested everyone knows but him, I believe he has thin skin.
F. Guffey
Last week I was on the shooters Forum when a moderator started talking about what happens to brass when formed, I suggested we think about it and then he suggested everyone knows. And then I suggested everyone knows but him, I believe he has thin skin.
F. Guffey
which shooters forum?
which shooters forum?
You are saying this does not bother you? I do not believe it should be allowed on any forum. The same moderator accused me of Voodoo reloading, he accused me risking reloaders lives with my advice. 3 months later he starts a response with "No biggie, I have been doing it for years and then he does a cut and paste of my response on adjusting a press. He should feel more secure; I do not know what he is afraid of.
F. Guffey
Guffy - once again you have taken a thread and steered it away from what it opened with discussing. How does your percieved insult comment about brass forming have anything to do with recognising old member posters that may only still lurk here, or may have moved on because they don't post now?
You are saying this does not bother you? I do not believe it should be allowed on any forum. The same moderator accused me of Voodoo reloading, he accused me risking reloaders lives with my advice. 3 months later he starts a response with "No biggie, I have been doing it for years and then he does a cut and paste of my response on adjusting a press. He should feel more secure; I do not know what he is afraid of.
F. Guffey
I've not said that,
just curious what forum, (I'm on a handful, but not as many as you likely are)
Guffy - once again you have taken a thread and steered it away from what it opened with discussing. How does your perceived insult comment about brass forming have anything to do with recognizing old member posters that may only still lurk here, or may have moved on because they don't post now?
PWC, please forgive; still lurk here or moved on, I remember most of the members in Michigan moving on. I contacted two of them to find out what the problem was. T
hey all pointed at a moderator that lived just north of Chicago and south of Wisconsin near the lake. I explained to them I would drop-in on him, he threatened some members with a law suit. I wanted to make sure he understood I was going to help the alienated members. In my opinion he had nothing going for him and he was too lazy to earn any respect so he tried to demand it.
I do not know how many pages ago all of this stuff took place; what I do know is I do not travel as much as I did back then.
F. Guffey
I believe what set them off was their lack of knowledge about cleaning rods. As a bonus I thought I could help them with an improvement in cleaning rod patches; I believe I blew their minds when I tried to introduce an adjustable patch. I do not believe I was threatening their 'go to' status. I struggle with the ideal the cleaning rod does all of the muzzle tapering. I believe the user should take some of the responsibility. They had absolutely no interest in considering they were doing 'it' wrong.
F. Guffey
Guffey, what ARE you talking about? You are the most eclectic thinker I know.
Guffey, what ARE you talking about? You are the most eclectic thinker I know.
I can't make heads or tails out of some of his stuff either,
but some I can,
this is not one of those I can get,,,
Guffey, what ARE you talking about? You are the most eclectic thinker I know.
A few weeks before that I tried to help them with chamber casting. Seems they had the illusion they were checking head space. I did not have to wait long before their brain trusts claimed it could not be done, he said it was impossible to measure head space with a chamber casting. I disagreed, I informed him there are two shooters/reloaders that can cast a chamber for head space. I tried to inform him I have been casting chambers for many years. When I started, I did not have anyone to give me any bad habits. All I had was a pile of tools and gun parts: and the attitude "All I have to do is etc. etc...
For my effort I was threatened with a 1-month ban. Reminded me about 'thinking about' going to a Jimmy Buffett concert; I was told it was not nice to beat Jimmy to the words of his own songs.
eclectic: am I surrounded with forum members that do not have shop skills? Adjustable patches, if you have never heard of an adjustable patch, it would help me if you would say something like "I never heard of an adjustable patch" or I never heard of a cleaning rod being used to taper the muzzle/bore.
You are the most eclectic thinker I know.
Thank you.
F. Guffey
I can't make heads or tails out of some of his stuff either,
but some I can,
this is not one of those I can get.
I cannot see you making an effort, I will assume you use cleaning rods and patches, I will assume you have never heard of a cleaning rod tapering the bore as it is pulled/pushed through the bore; me? If the cleaning rod is rubbing the bore with a negative effect, I am going to change my method and or technique. If the cleaning rod bows when pushed through the bore, I am going to pull it through and or change my methods and or techniques.
F. Guffey
Guffey, sometimes I think you read something on another site, then post your answer here....as always, I know you have to have the last post in a thread, so go ahead.
I cannot see you making an effort, I will assume you use cleaning rods and patches, I will assume you have never heard of a cleaning rod tapering the bore as it is pulled/pushed through the bore; me? If the cleaning rod is rubbing the bore with a negative effect, I am going to change my method and or technique. If the cleaning rod bows when pushed through the bore, I am going to pull it through and or change my methods and or techniques.
F. Guffey
as I cannot see you making an effort to make a comment in a clear and concise method,
if the rod bows,, you may be doing something wrong,
Guffey, sometimes I think you read something on another site, then post your answer here...
PWC, I have no idea how you could come up with a thought like that, I have not posted any answers, what I have posted are questions.
You are the most eclectic thinker I know.
Thank you.
I believe some members have self-respect, pride and dignity, and then there are others that choose to be widely indignant about everything, you ask "what am I talking about?". If you do not want to know, don't ask but you have to put some effort into it. Claiming you do not understand is a childish copout.
A chamber cast that determines the length of the chamber is something only one shooter/reloaders has managed to accomplish. Because of the widely indignant element there is only one shooter/reloader that came to a forum with questions about casting and then left a forum with the ability to cast a chamber that could be used to measure the length of the chamber. I apologized to him for the bad behavior of the reloading forum.
Back to the beginning of this thread; there were members on that forum that were on this forum. He could not understand why they were insulting him.
F. Guffey
if the rod bows, you may be doing something wrong,
Please tell me how you prevent the cleaning rod from bowing or tell me how a shooter can cause the cleaning rod to bow. I have heavy twine/rope cleaners and I have chains, there is no way a rope and or chain can be pushed through the bore; the chain and or rope/twine can only be pulled unless it goes in one end and out the other and I would not know what reloaders would call that, come and go/back and forth or pull/pull, they could call it a barrel flosser?
And there is the taper ware gage for the muzzle, an auto response for the tapered muzzle is 'the cleaning rod did it'. I do not agree but we have so many snarky members I do not dare upsetting them.
F. Guffey
Please tell me how you prevent the cleaning rod from bowing or tell me how a shooter can cause the cleaning rod to bow.
which do you want an answer to? since you said OR
I have heavy twine/rope cleaners and I have chains, there is no way a rope and or chain can be pushed through the bore; the chain and or rope/twine can only be pulled unless it goes in one end and out the other and I would not know what reloaders would call that, come and go/back and forth or pull/pull, they could call it a barrel flosser?
what to reloaders have to do with cleaning the bore with a pull thru or rod?
why would you go back and forth like floss, when you want to push thru from the breech if you can, or push from the muzzle if you cannot?
And there is the taper ware gage for the muzzle, an auto response for the tapered muzzle is 'the cleaning rod did it'. I do not agree but we have so many snarky members I do not dare upsetting them.
F. Guffey
taper wear gage or gauge? as in tapered to show the diameter at the muzzle (vs the throat)?
taper wear gage or gauge? as in tapered to show the diameter at the muzzle (vs the throat)?
I have a Starrett tool catalog that go back 100 years, in 100 years Starett has always referred to their tools as gages. Many years ago, they had a machinist handbook, same thing. and then there is the Machinist handbook; nowhere in all of the editions will you find anything as silly as guage or gauge being used to identify a gage.
F. Guffey
butlersrangers
12-07-2021, 10:58
FWIW - I have lost track of the original point of this thread. IIRC - it was rather nice and paid tribute to old posts that contained a lot of knowledge and memories of past contributors.
Things suddenly went bizarre with a display of old grudges.
As usual, everyone is a bit in the 'Right'.
English is such a fun language, Babel within itself!
Although "gauge" is the preferred spelling, "gage" is an old variant. It can be found in some dictionaries, right between "gag" and "gaggle".
4989249893
FWIW - I have lost track of the original point of this thread. IIRC - it was rather nice and paid tribute to old posts that contained a lot of knowledge and memories of past contributors.
Things suddenly went bizarre with a display of grudges
4989249893
3rd post on, Guffey derailed the post with comments on brass, and e eryone dutifully followed, except Lyman.......Baaaa!
FWIW - I have lost track of the original point of this thread. IIRC - it was rather nice and paid tribute to old posts that contained a lot of knowledge and memories of past contributors.
Things suddenly went bizarre with a display of old grudges.
As usual, everyone is a bit in the 'Right'.
English is such a fun language, Babel within itself!
Although "gauge" is the preferred spelling, "gage" is an old variant. It can be found in some dictionaries, right between "gag" and "gaggle".
4989249893
where is that damn like button....:1948:
maybe Guffey will do us a Favor,,,, or Favour,, and let us know which he prefers,
meanwhile sorry to prolong the drift
Things suddenly went bizarre with a display of old grudges.
As usual, everyone is a bit in the 'Right'.
It is something they have done to their own foot (one of the other), they have different standards for different folks. It was not long ago most would say "everyone knows what the other means"; many years ago, I said I took a picture of my gages and then I said the picture weight 600 pounds. And now someone wants me to change the names of my gages? Again, I go to my 100-year-old Starrett catalog and then I go to my 100+ year old Starrett Machinist handbook and find nothing has changed.
If there was any updating to be done it would have been done in the machinist handbook, I have three different copies: no changes after all these years.
A writer/gunsmith/shooter/reloader wanted to learn to weld so he signed into a welding class taught by (in my opinion) the best welder at North Texas State/University of Texas Denton. The writer wrote books; one of the books covered chambering a rifle. I thought the book was an excellent book. I have two of them, one is the first edition, and the second book is the second edition. When I got the books, I had enough respect for the old professor and the man that wrote the book I did not say anything about the way gage was spelled Neither one of the two gentlemen used a technical proof writer. The professor held two doctoral degrees in education. He was a gunsmith, the man that taught machine shop at Norths Texas held a doctoral degree, they had a small gunsmith shop in Denton, Texas. For all the years I have known them I have never had a conversation that is as silly as the ones I get involved in on gun forums. Both have died, not something I wanted to do but I was asked to clean out their shops. I volunteered to pack up the off-campus office that belonged to one of them, I was allowed to do that while he was alive.
F. Guffey
Johnny P
12-08-2021, 12:17
Maybe the person that wrote the definition got it wrong?
I think I have a couple more, and all are spelled GAGE.
https://i.postimg.cc/B63rsmyf/Gages.jpg
butlersrangers
12-08-2021, 04:41
The truth is there are two perfectly acceptable ways to spell gage/gauge. Both are correct.
3rd post on, Guffey derailed the post with comments on brass, and e eryone dutifully followed, except Lyman.......Baaaa!
if you prefer, I can prune this thead and remove the alternative paths
Not for me to say, evidently the folks here support changing thread directions from pillar to post because they keep answering.
If it stays active, the title should be changed, because it isn't what the OP started.
Johnny P
12-08-2021, 09:06
As used by U.S. Ordnance, gage was the noun, and gauged was the verb.
Not for me to say, evidently the folks here support changing thread directions from pillar to post because they keep answering.
If it stays active, the title should be changed, because it isn't what the OP started.
then I will leave it up to Dryheat,
gotta admit tho,, the topic turned a bit interesting,
The truth is there are two perfectly acceptable ways to spell gage/gauge. Both are correct.
It is immature to have two standards for members. I have from the beginning claimed it is impossible to move the shoulder of a case back when sizing with a die that has full length case body support. Judging by the response by my critics there is not one member that that knows where to start investigating what happens to a case when sizing, firing and forming. And I would be wasting my time to suggest when finished the reloader that claims they can move the shoulder back when sizing must understand if they could move the shoulder back, they cannot develop 'the dreaded donut' inside the case. Part of this thread made a preserved turn, the topic of necking a case up and or down was mentioned; no one knew because no one offered information. Most went to Yaw Yawing, that is when people sit on their front porch and holler back and forth.
No one noticed I said, "please forgive", again I doubt I can find anyone that understands the meaning of 'forgive'.
F. Guffey
Maybe the person that wrote the definition got it wrong?
I think I have a couple more, and all are spelled GAGE.
https://i.postimg.cc/B63rsmyf/Gages.jpg
thank you for taking the time to contribute. Back in those days the gage was identified as go, not go, and now I have to give them something to complain about; 'not-go' meant 'will not go'.
I have three machines make gages that use a tapper. I agree with Roy Dunlap, he said he purchases gages like head space gages, he also said he had friends that made their gages and he had friends that used cases as gages; I believe there would be more of all types if there were not so many snarky members on social media.
F. Guffey
Here we go AGAIN, Guffey 101, How You Can't Bump Case Shoulders and Headspace 101, Only Guffey Knows How.
butlersrangers
12-08-2021, 11:00
I got the 'message' intended in the original post.
Spending time reading old threads is an interesting, informative and useful endeavor.
It honors contributors, who may have died or no longer participate. What they shared, lives on.
Most of it is good and advances understanding. It's not that hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Here we go AGAIN, Guffey 101, How You Can't Bump Case Shoulders and Headspace 101, Only Guffey Knows How.
PWC, grow up, there is no excuse for you not knowing how; if you could go back enough pages you would know reloaders claimed head space was a line. When I informed them, the datum was a round hole not a line and the hole could not have a tapper they got all giggly about a tool that had a tapper, they could not get the tool to work accurately because it had a tapper. I did not want to waste their time, so I told them most of the round holes measured 3/8"/.375" and then they got all silly.
F. Guffey
I got the 'message' intended in the original post.
Spending time reading old threads is an interesting, informative and useful endeavor.
It honors contributors, who may have died or no longer participate. What they shared, lives on.
Most of it is good and advances understanding. It's not that hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.
As the post was intended.
As the post was intended.
So, you are using that as an excuse for being rude? Consider what he overlooked. I had no investment and nothing to gain when I tried to help reloaders understand the case gage. They claimed the case gage was a 'drop-in' gage. No one kept the instructions, no one knew the L.E. Wilson case gage went back to about 1938.
I thought The Wilson case gage was magnificent tool. Any reloader that understood the case gage could answer most of the answers asked about head space. fitting the case to the chamber, the difference between fired and sized cases, and then there were those that had something to gain by discouraging reloaders from using the case gage. I did not care what tool they use; all I was interested in was to make sure they understood how to use the tool they choose.
I have case gages, I have made case gages, I have made chamber gages. If you go back enough pages you will find a member that was named W.T. Watts. He attended Ackley's school of gunsmithing in Colorado. He knew enough about the topics that were being discussed, what he could not understand is how I could upset 'almost' everyone. He contacted me, he needed to come to Dallas to find some ham radio equipment and he wanted to know a few of my resource people. He spent 4 days here, I took him to places he did not know existed, I took him to smiths and shops and old friends, he told me he had to find out if I was for real? I showed him what I was involved with, I had put together a few things I wanted to help him with, one was annealing, another was checking the length of a chamber with one gage. Another project covered helped to determine if it was possible for the case to run forward in the chamber when the firing pin hit the primer.
and then there were all of those experts that claimed the case had head space, it was most embarrassing for one because he called SAAMI, he told them what I said. They looked it up and determined there was no symbol for head space in the Ledgen for the case drawing. Anyhow another member felt sorry for him, so he took the credit for the call.
F. Guffey
Forgive, I forgot, at the time I tried to help reloaders to expand their knowledge and understanding and the relation between projects and tools, I offered to modify a go-gage to a go to-infinity gage, one said no because it would no longer be a period correct gage. He was the one that called me over to help him shorten a chamber. I had 35 new bolts not one of the 35 would shorten the chamber. He had over 100 03 bolts, I offered to check all of his bolts, I promised him he did not have a bolt that would shorten the chamber. He had 25 go-gages with a few no go-gage, out of all of those gages he could not determine how long his chamber was from the datum to the bolt face. And then I showed him how to check the length of the chamber without a head space gage. I tried.
F. Guffey
So, you are using that as an excuse for being rude?
F. Guffey
Rude? I will leave it to the other contributors here to judge whether my comments were rude or cogent. Go ahead as always, you get the last comment.
I miss seeing Pete Davis's rock work...
Forgive, I forgot, at the time I tried to help reloaders to expand their knowledge and understanding and the relation between projects and tools, I offered to modify a go-gage to a go to-infinity gage, one said no because it would no longer be a period correct gage. He was the one that called me over to help him shorten a chamber. I had 35 new bolts not one of the 35 would shorten the chamber. He had over 100 03 bolts, I offered to check all of his bolts, I promised him he did not have a bolt that would shorten the chamber. He had 25 go-gages with a few no go-gage, out of all of those gages he could not determine how long his chamber was from the datum to the bolt face. And then I showed him how to check the length of the chamber without a head space gage. I tried.
F. Guffey
I offered to modify a go-gage to a go to-infinity gage
Can you modify a go-gage to a go to infinity gage?
Please do not show off for me; I understand some member's wallow is this type of misery.
F. Guffey
guffey is quoting and talking to himself again, think this one is done
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