Hollywood, Martin Retting and Trapdoor Carbines

[Story]

Follow me on this, as the Movie Studio thread (http://www.jouster2.com/forums/showthread.php?76304-Movie-studio-marked-guns ) sent me down the rabbit hole on this rode-hard more-or-less M1879 carbine.
https://i.imgur.com/NJ5rLCS.jpg

Back in the 1950s, Martin Redding use to peddle both carbines and rifles cut down to carbine length. This is from a 1965-66 catalog
https://i.imgur.com/0ZEVqvX.jpg?1 Note that an $85 carbine in 1965 works out to $746.35 in 2021, using an Historical Inflation Calculator.

Got curious, started poking around more. The Buffalo Bill Center of the West library has some correspondence from Retting to H.K. White in New York City

"By 1905 White was in a position to purchase much of the M. Hartley Company?s stock and continue operating as H. K. White Military Goods, located at 3 Water Street, New York City. With Henry's sons, Robert J. White (the original secretary and treasurer of the UMC Company) and Frederick R. White, and George Koerner, White?s company prospered in selling firearms and equipment, military supplies and other goods, and became known especially for its supply of surplus Civil War arms and goods. Eventually White's other son, H. K. White, Jr. joined the firm as well, and when the elder White died in 1923, his sons continued to run the business. H. K. White Military Goods continued to do business into the 1960s and became very well known among antique firearms collectors. In 1963 the company?s stock was purchased by Turner Kirkland?s Dixie Gun Works Company of Union City, Tennessee."

In one letter dated January 12, 1954 Retting asks White in a closing paragraph "Please quote us on locks (lockplate, all internal parts, hammer, etc.) for 45-70 single shot Springfield, trapdoor buttplates complete for [handwritten - None] 45-70 carbines, sling swivels, swivel bar for 45-70 carbine 45-70 carbine stocks, any condition, rear sights 45-70 carbine. Please quote all of above in lots of two dozen."

So he was rebuilding Trapdoor Carbines. Rhetorically, *why*?

Take a look at the films coming out in 1954 and 1955
https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?release_date=1954-01-01,1954-12-31&genres=western
https://www.imdb.com/search/title/?release_date=1955-01-01,1955-12-31&genres=western

...never mind the established popularity of John Ford's trilogy from a few years before
https://screenrant.com/john-ford-cavalry-trilogy-movies-ranked/

https://i.imgur.com/iY9xy3p.jpg?1


https://i.imgur.com/xP3uQDW.jpg?1


https://i.imgur.com/9XOsNfp.jpg


Stay Tuned for the Next Post

[Story]

So, I always wanted a Trapdoor Carbine (full disclosure, I'm a former Cav guy).

Found an 1874 dated rifle receiver with a smoothbored cut-down barrel. I had Bobby Hoyt (out near Gettysburg PA) reline it, cut it to 22" and fashion a front sight.

While he normally tackles muzzleloaders for the North South Skirmish Assocation folks, his rates were reasonable and his turn around time surprisingly fast.
https://i.imgur.com/gAXZWo4.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/1wy2nBc.jpg

But I was going to need more parts to actually shoot - like a lock and stock and such. I'd have been completely happy with a cut-down rifle stock and even a functioning Bannerman lock, but this orphaned M1879 came my way (see first post).


https://i.imgur.com/BMT2FAS.jpg
1. Yes, that's an ugly crack. I agree, someone tried to force the take-down.
2. Yes, those are bronze round head bolts retaining the lock plate.
3. Yes, you do see a flat-head screw retaining the front of the trigger guard.
4. The muzzle swallows a .45-70 round and burps. Rifling? You mean those faint swirley things?
5. Not shown - missing front sight blade.

But, it's a legit carbine stock with legit sling bar inletting and a legit buttplate.
https://i.imgur.com/U0aXCYR.jpg

The nice surprise was the two-outta-three piece cleaning rod and stuck case remover, until I went back later to stow those parts and discovered the third cleaning rod section stuck up in the middle channel. Um.... cool? But for every two steps forward, there's one backwards.
The stuck-case removal tool has the tip of a cleaning rod broken off inside the threaded female section.
https://i.imgur.com/X0XSfT7.jpg

[Story]

So, here's my range configuration - M1874 viz M1879

https://i.imgur.com/ek0YfX4.jpg

I've got about 15 rounds of modern blackpowder cartridges left and am currently waiting on a friend's delivery of more so I can zero this weapon. Everything associated with this carbine lives in a vintage tool box, since the stock and both actions will fit when broken down.
I figure it's happy in there, like it's own little nest.
https://i.imgur.com/sgldMV0.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/1xfALg8.jpg

It's been fun to speculate on the life of this carbine - 1) as issued,

2) rebuilt at some point [possibly for the ultimate in dog-and-pony shows, the movies!] and

3) now for a third time, a new life good for a few more decades.

Sort of like old cav troopers, huh?


Thanks for reading.
Scouts out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIiswWyywgg

[Dick Hosmer]

Wonderful story - but you've put the rear sight on backwards! Tall part goes to the front - taper will then fit, too...

[Fred]

Your trigger guard is reversed from what a carbine would have.

[Story]

Wonderful story - but you've put the rear sight on backwards! Tall part goes to the front - taper will then fit, too...

Probably figure that out on the M1874 eventually, maybe after wondering why the rounds weren't hitting paper or comparing it to the other action. :cool: Thanks.

The M1879 has this 1877 sight on for awhile, the slotted screws made me think of Retting's part search/assemblies.

https://i.imgur.com/cTZxqBz.jpg?1

Huh - dug out the Hoyt re-lined barreled action and the pics above are [post 3, #1 and post 2, #1 & 2] from when I first set it in the stock. I remember singing the "Which one of these things is not like the other ?" song when I corrected it.

As it appears now -
https://i.imgur.com/X8PBVqh.jpg

[Tom Doniphon]

Are you saying that Martin B. Retting Guns supplied Trapdoors to the film industry? Retting Guns is still in business and is run by the founder's sons. I know them and can ask if they ever supplied trapdoors and/or other firearms to the film. It certainly is possible. But back in the day most film companies had their own armories and gunsmiths to work on them.

[Story]

Are you saying that Martin B. Retting Guns supplied Trapdoors to the film industry? Retting Guns is still in business and is run by the founder's sons. I know them and can ask if they ever supplied trapdoors and/or other firearms to the film. It certainly is possible. But back in the day most film companies had their own armories and gunsmiths to work on them.

It's possible. What I did lay out what was driving their rebuild program for sales to whoever.

I think the only way the 21st century Retting folks could tell for sure who bought what is if they had the old receipts with serial numbers and buyers' names on them.

As it is, they sold this Trapdoor recently - read the description, then go up to post #1 and see if it sounds familiar.
https://i.imgur.com/HidLfWm.jpg