Any thoughts on the 1917 .45 Colt/S&W revolvers?

[jon_norstog]

I've reached a stage in my life where a handgun might be of some use. Until it was stolen I had my grandfather's Colt police positive special - a good, accurate pistol but I could only get two fingers around the grip. I've seen the 1917s around and like the size of them, also the abundance of ammo and the half-moon clip feature. Anything I should know before I go out looking for one? I would love to read others' experiences.

jn

[Art]

I've never owned either. I was, at one time issued a totally ragged out .38 Special Colt New Service (same basic gun as a 1917) that had the barrel cut down to 2." that was a funny looking gun. It was so out of time I got a "click" at least once every six shots.

I've shot a bunch of revolvers and IMHO if actual utility is a major factor and given a choice with a used revolver I'd chose a S&W and that isn't just my prejudices talking. The Colts also tend to be more expensive, sometimes a lot more expensive. If the timing is good and it doesn't rattle either will be a good choice though. The Colts are a little bit bigger than the "Smiths."

The big frame pre WWII revolvers can also be found in .45 Colt and .44 Special/Russian though the ammo isn't as available. I'd advise against a converted Webley if you plan on shooting it a lot.

[barretcreek]

Friend has a Brazilian contract Smith. Local guy, ret'd LE does amazing trigger jobs but he can't find parts for pre-war Smiths so he just did what he could on that gun. So check it out carefully. My father's pre-war Heavy Duty is in great shape and I only will shoot loads which are heavy enough to avoid a double charge.

[JimF]

I have the S&W version in about 90% condition.
Also have small hands so it fits me better than the Colt.
For years, I used the Lyman #452460 200 gr. SWC w/231 powder. This load shot too low at 50 ft., so I left the gun in the safe.
Then . . . .
Following Elmer Keith?s lead, I CAREFULLY loaded Lyman?s big #454424 w/2400 powder.
BINGO! . . . It now shoots to the sights!
And, the recoil is NOT severe!

[lyman]

I have a near mint Colt 1917 that I have never shot,
and a Brazilian contract Smith that I used as a truck gun,
beat up, but the previous owner replaced the internals ,
it's wearing more modern Magna grips, and despite the external appearance, the bore is pristine,
shoots very very well,


I picked up another 45 cal N frame a few months ago, but it's a factory smith, sent to Canada, in 455 ,, in pretty good shape for it's travels

[Johnny P]

Personally, I prefer the S&W due to the difference in frame size. The Model 1917 Colt was built on the New Service frame which is considerably larger than the S&W. Also, the S&W was finished to a commercial finish where the Colt was left in the early rough stage of polish.

Except for the early Colts to about serial number 30450, the revolvers can be fired without the half moon clips, but the empties must be picked out one at the time.

[blackhawknj]

Since neither has been manufactured in decades, good luck finding one. I have both, the Colt has a much heavier trigger pull. S&W grips do not fit me, for shooting my S&Ws wear either Herrett's or Pachmayrs.

[lyman]

Since neither has been manufactured in decades, good luck finding one. I have both, the Colt has a much heavier trigger pull. S&W grips do not fit me, for shooting my S&Ws wear either Herrett's or Pachmayrs.

there are plenty out there floating around the interwebz,

[jon_norstog]

Man I looked for one of those revolvers on Gunbroker the other day. I found one of them that was under $1,000.00 - listed as a project gun! I messed my right shoulder up again, enough that relying on an edged weapon for home defense is a little iffy. At those prices, maybe I'll stick with the blade, just train to use it left-handed.

jn

[barretcreek]

Jon, little thread drift here.
Found a bayonet adapter for my 870. Did the Army ever have dummy rifles for use in bayonet training? Don't feel like leaving a real weapon lying around but a fake would be o.k.

[jon_norstog]

Jon, little thread drift here.
Found a bayonet adapter for my 870. Did the Army ever have dummy rifles for use in bayonet training? Don't feel like leaving a real weapon lying around but a fake would be o.k.

You've got me on that one. I wasn't in the Army and I never heard of dummy rifles. I was in the Coast Guard, we didn't get bayonet training. But I did learn how to deliver a baby.

jn

[Johnny P]

there are plenty out there floating around the interwebz,

Somewhere around 318,500 made, so not particularly rare.

- - - Updated - - -


You've got me on that one. I wasn't in the Army and I never heard of dummy rifles. I was in the Coast Guard, we didn't get bayonet training. But I did learn how to deliver a baby.

jn

They had wooden drill rifles, but none that would stand up to bayonet practice.

[lyman]

You've got me on that one. I wasn't in the Army and I never heard of dummy rifles. I was in the Coast Guard, we didn't get bayonet training. But I did learn how to deliver a baby.

jn

the Army made Dummy or DP type Garands, 1903's and then later on, dummy M16's AK and several other modern weapons
most of the modern dummies are cast plastic, including some fake or dummy, (or training aid) bayonets,

I have a M16 dummy that is a A1 upper, filled with resin, on a fiberglass receiver, using A1 hardware,
the trigger moves, as does the mag catch, but no other internals
not strong enough for bayonet practice

[Fred]

The S&W 1917 fits the hand better than the Colt 1917.
We have one here at home for ranch/home protection. We don’t use half or full moon clips in it.
I’d recommend a S&W over a Colt.

[Vern Humphrey]

Jon, little thread drift here.
Found a bayonet adapter for my 870. Did the Army ever have dummy rifles for use in bayonet training? Don't feel like leaving a real weapon lying around but a fake would be o.k.

Yes -- back after the Civil War, the Army had "fencing muskets" for bayonet training. When I was going through Basic and Advanced Infantry Training, we used the issue M1 -- with scabbard on for man-on-man training, and without the scabbard for man-on-dummy.

[lpcullen]

I seldom shoot my S&W 1917 but when I do I use handloaded .45 auto rim. Not a big fan of the moon clips. Removing the spent cases is always tedious. I've handled the Colts but never owned one.

[Johnny P]

They make a tool for removing the cases from the clips, but I just shoot mine without the clips. Only takes a few seconds to remove the fired cases one at the time.

[Vern Humphrey]

.45 Auto Rim is easy to get and not all that expensive. I loaded up 500 rounds for a friend of mine (he has the Colt) a year of so ago.

[jon_norstog]

.45 Auto Rim is easy to get and not all that expensive. I loaded up 500 rounds for a friend of mine (he has the Colt) a year of so ago.

Thanks a lot Vern. I didn't know they even still made the stuff!

jn

[Vern Humphrey]

I bought an M1917 Colt in a pawn shop in Batesville, AR in '61 or '62 for about $15-$20 (couldn't 't have been more -- I didn't have more in those days.) I gave it to a girl who loved to ride through the hills -- she had ridden up on some unsavory characters. But with that big iron on her hip, that problem went away.

I bought a New Service in .45 Colt for $350 several years back. It had been reblued and shot high and to the left. After trying everything, I cut the barrel to 5 1/2", put on adjustable sights and Herrett Shooting Master grips. I carry it in an El Past Saddlery pancake holster, and it conceals well with a shirt draped over it.

I like a 255 grain Wide Flatnose or a semi-wadcutter of the same weight loaded ahead of 11 grains of HS 6.

[Vern Humphrey]

You've got me on that one. I wasn't in the Army and I never heard of dummy rifles. I was in the Coast Guard, we didn't get bayonet training. But I did learn how to deliver a baby.

jn

In the 19th Century, the Army used "fencing muskets" for bayonet training. Later on, for serious bayonet training we simply left the scabbards on the blades, or use pugil sticks.

[Allen]

You've got me on that one. I wasn't in the Army and I never heard of dummy rifles. I was in the Coast Guard, we didn't get bayonet training. But I did learn how to deliver a baby.

jn

Somewhere at my Mother's house we have a dummy 1903 Springfield. It was there at the house when I was a kid. It has a wood stock and steel barrel and other hardware. No parts, including the stock will interchange with the real guns. It looks a little like a Hollywood prop gun but cheaper looking/not detailed much.

I think it is a 03 rifle but it would pass for any rifle as far as training goes.

I believe it was intended to look fake enough to not be confused with a real rifle. You couldn't take this gun into a bank and expect to rob it unless the bank clerk was very dumb, blind, or just wanted to be robbed.

[Vern Humphrey]

Somewhere at my Mother's house we have a dummy 1903 Springfield. It was there at the house when I was a kid. It has a wood stock and steel barrel and other hardware. No parts, including the stock will interchange with the real guns. It looks a little like a Hollywood prop gun but cheaper looking/not detailed much.

I think it is a 03 rifle but it would pass for any rifle as far as training goes.

I believe it was intended to look fake enough to not be confused with a real rifle. You couldn't take this gun into a bank and expect to rob it unless the bank clerk was very dumb, blind, or just wanted to be robbed.

I'd have to see it to be sure -- but when I was a kid, you could buy those as a toy. One of the giveaways was the cocking knob was made of wood.

[JimF]

Somewhere at my Mother's house we have a dummy 1903 Springfield. It was there at the house when I was a kid. It has a wood stock and steel barrel and other hardware. No parts, including the stock will interchange with the real guns. It looks a little like a Hollywood prop gun but cheaper looking/not detailed much.

I think it is a 03 rifle but it would pass for any rifle as far as training goes.

I believe it was intended to look fake enough to not be confused with a real rifle. You couldn't take this gun into a bank and expect to rob it unless the bank clerk was very dumb, blind, or just wanted to be robbed.

I believe you are talking about the “Paris-Dunn” training rifle.

Pop bought me one back in 1950 (or thereabouts.)
The local Army/Navy store had them in a wooden barrel . . . . .$4 per piece.

I still have it!

[Allen]

I haven't seen it in decades. I remember neither me nor my brother played with it. It wouldn't fire live rounds, blanks, BB's, nor caps and you couldn't toss lit firecrackers down the barrel so what good was it to us?

[Art]

I saw a nice S&W Model 1950 military (civilian version of the M1917) in a pawn shop the other day. I had to enlighten the pawn broker on the actual caliber and the need for half moon or moon clips to make it extract properly. It was a 5 screw without an ejector rod shroud and if it hadn't been for a couple of spots where it had been exposed to moisture that caused some light pitting in two small spots would probably have had 90% of the original finish. Really nice gun but at $1,400.00 a fair price but not cheap.

[Vern Humphrey]

I bought a Colt M1917 for about $10 around 1960 and gave it to a girlfriend who used to go riding in the woods alone. She eventually passed it on to her youngest son, who never fired it. When I found out about that last year, I loaded up 500 rounds of .45 Auto Rim for him.