Question re .30-'03

[Dick Hosmer]

I usually pick up most military '03s that I run across, and came upon one today at a gun show, that was interesting.

Serial was 268956 or some such - not trying to be cute, just didn't copy it exactly. Looking at the barrel (and fully expecting to see 3-42 or so) was stunned to see 6-05. The owner then pointed out a flaw, which I'd missed because the cutoff was turned up - it had been used as a drill rifle at one time, and the cutoff had been welded to the receiver. It's now free, but the receiver has some grind marks. Barrel is 24.25" and still in .30-'03! Stock, which is later than receiver, has had two cross bolts added. Has regimental markings on right butt - M over 177. Bolt handle is straight. Rifle is blued, not Parkerized. I did not notice whether the rear sight was early, but the base is. Hand guard is later (smooth slope vs. hump/S curve). Bore is quite nice.

My big question - is it worth $800?

I MIGHT be able to get it a bit cheaper but probably not much.

Thanks!

[Merc]

The price doesn’t sound too bad. Probably cheaper than usual because of the grinding marks. Regardless, it does have historic value. Finding an early M1903 that’s still in 30-03 is unusual. The questions you have to ask yourself are - do you really want it, blemishes included, and will you ever see another one like it for sale?

[Allen]

From what is left of us here, YOU and a couple of others are pretty much the expert on these.

For what my opinion is worth I agree with Merc though. Is it worth it to you? Finding one 100% to your liking and completely unaltered may fetch more money than you are willing to spend so you would end up doing without. Over time some guns are becoming so scrace that a few blemishes are accepted more so such as the re-import markings on a GI M1 carbine or the mum being ground off of a Jap Arisaka.

Collector value is diminished of course but if you're not buying it to turn a profit then what the heck. You said it was interesting to you.

Here is a listing on GB. The asking price really means nothing, it's the completed/sold items that tell you the story on the $ worth but I don't see that option here any longer. Guess they don't offer it or they moved it.

Anyway, obviously these guns are worth more, maybe not this much but I pasted it here for pics and the little story.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/918648657

[Dick Hosmer]

The price doesn’t sound too bad. Probably cheaper than usual because of the grinding marks. Regardless, it does have historic value. Finding an early M1903 that’s still in 30-03 is unusual. The questions you have to ask yourself are - do you really want it, blemishes included, and will you ever see another one like it for sale?

All good points! While, after 50 years of study, I do honestly consider myself an "expert" on trapdoors and to a certain extant Krags, but I know just enough about 1903s to possibly get myself into a heap of trouble. The grinding does not bother me that much - with the typical gunshow lighting and with the cutoff up, I did not even see it on the first pass. I think a bit more polishing and a dab of cold blue (it's only about an 80% condition piece anyhow - nothing minty) would make that issue almost go away, especially since it is on the off-side.

I spent the evening with Brophy and Flayderman, and note some inconsistencies with my hasty notes. I am going back today for another look today with a tape, a magnifier, and all my books, even SRS just on a wild chance. I'm thinking that the rear sight base MIGHT be parked, which would be bad, and I wasn't sure about the sight itself, but now I know 2400 good - 2700 bad. The stock is a puzzle, and as noted, the hand guard is definitely later. I also realize that I was off on the barrel length, it's supposed to be 24.206", not 24.25". (I knew it was longer but forgot exactly how much). And, if I am reading Brophy correctly, there should not be a month on an 05 barrel? I'd thought I read it as -06, but the seller corrected me and I didn't verify it. I will today and also take picture(s).

It's a dilemma. I'm in the process of disposing of my collection - rather than adding to it! FWIW, I had thought that a .30-'03 was rare (or perhaps even quite rare) rather than simply "unusual". That, you see, is where my lack of 1903 knowledge could very possibly have bitten me. The gun is no virgin, and I certainly don't need a case of buyer's remorse.

I thank you very much for your insight, and if anyone else wants to chime in this morning, it would be much appreciated. At least, by the end of the day - whether I buy the rifle or not, I'll know a LOT more about it.:1948:

[Dick Hosmer]

From what is left of us here, YOU and a couple of others are pretty much the expert on these.

For what my opinion is worth I agree with Merc though. Is it worth it to you? Finding one 100% to your liking and completely unaltered may fetch more money than you are willing to spend so you would end up doing without. Over time some guns are becoming so scrace that a few blemishes are accepted more so such as the re-import markings on a GI M1 carbine or the mum being ground off of a Jap Arisaka.

Collector value is diminished of course but if you're not buying it to turn a profit then what the heck. You said it was interesting to you.

Here is a listing on GB. The asking price really means nothing, it's the completed/sold items that tell you the story on the $ worth but I don't see that option here any longer. Guess they don't offer it or they moved it.

Anyway, obviously these guns are worth more, maybe not this much but I pasted it here for pics and the little story.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/918648657


WOW - thank you SO much! Wonderful piece, though even it has a couple of very minor warts, but I shudder at the price. Great to actually SEE examples of all of the salient points which are just covered by text elsewhere - gives me a great basis for my closer look.

[Dick Hosmer]

Well, after a thorough inspection, I decided to punt. There was so much wrong that it basically wound up being a barrel, only, for $800.

So, at 84, and not really wanting to START an '03 collection - it just didn't make sense.

It WAS a thrill to actually see a correct full-length, unaltered 1905 barrel, though - and I'll just settle for that.

I do have the seller's contact info, and if anyone out there is in the midst of building a 1905 and doesn't yet have the "unobtainium" barrel, I'll put you in touch.

[Allen]

Sorry it didn't work out for you. For some the barrel may well be worth the $800 + they would have all the extra later made parts too.

Thanks for the update.

[Dick Hosmer]

Sorry it didn't work out for you. For some the barrel may well be worth the $800 + they would have all the extra later made parts too.

Thanks for the update.

Well, that's what I thought - let someone else have a chance.

20 years ago, I'd have bought that rifle in a heartbeat - but I'm not interested in starting fresh in '03s. I have TD and Krag projects which I've not finished!:eusa_wall:

[cmcwilliams]

Does anyone know the chamber dimensions for .30-06 and .30-03?


Sorry it didn't work out for you. For some the barrel may well be worth the $800 + they would have all the extra later made parts too.

Thanks for the update.

[bruce]

Fascinating thread! Have been reading off and on about 03 and 03-A3 rifles since about 1980. Have owned and enjoyed a few, some of them very nice. Have never seen a .30-03 except in pictures. Sincerely. bruce.

[Kragrifle]

Unfinished Krag projects?🤗

[Dick Hosmer]

Unfinished Krag projects?��

Well, yes. Have never addressed the issues with my BoOF rifles. 388786 sits in an uncartouched carbine stock with 1902C sight. I'm not convinced it's wrong, but it certainly makes one wonder. 389182 is 100% kosher save for a bobbed [1902] stock, cut 1/4" ahead of the band. My 482440 sits in a nice 1902 (wrong) stock. I've been thinking of reworking that stock for the later 26" - which metal is not quite as nice as the other - but it's virgin.

The benefit of using my stock is not having to fit a forend with the attendant color/grain issues; all work could be concealed. The downside is that I'm loathe to cut a good stock to make something phony.

So there I sit! I only "need" one BoOF, though it is kinda fun to actually have two (of the 100) both picked off Gunbroker for very (VERY in the case of the virgin) low prices.

[Kragrifle]

Might be best just to leave them as they are. A reasonably nice BOF rifle just went through an auction recently for an equally reasonable price so they do turn up. As an aside, the rifle pictured on the dust cover of Brophy?s Krag book is a Board of Fortifications model.

[Dick Hosmer]

Just for grins, what was the "reasonable" price? Do you by any chance have the auction listing?

I did not know - or had totally forgotten - about Brophy's dust jacket.

About turning up - there just CANNOT be too many of them left - and I've never encountered a proper one!

The carbine stocked one is nowhere near as unhandy as you might think, other than for hunting in thick cover, probably shorter than some English 'stalking rifles'.

[Kragrifle]

As I remember around $6000, but it was a year or so ago and I did not really look at it as I have one already. I thought it should have gone for more.
I?m heading to the Tulsa Gun show this WE . If I look hard enough there is a guy that has been bringing the best BOF rifle I have ever seen to the show for years. He never prices it and I really don?t think it?s for sale. He just likes to talk about it.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks. Is your number on the KCA list? Is his? I like to keep track of tidbits!

[Kragrifle]

Mine, yes . I don?t know his name, but he isn?t there this year.

- - - Updated - - -

Not sure why question marks show up for apostrophes.

[jmm03]

Mr. Hosmer, could you be persuaded to post pictures of your Krag's? Thanks, jim

[Dick Hosmer]

Don't really have many of them available, and I REALLY dislike the cumbersome photo process here, but will see what I can do. Anything in particular you are interested in? Am REALLY busy with non-gun family responsibilities right now, so bug me if I don't get on this right away.

[Fred]

Dick, what convinced you that the barrel was still in 30-03?
All of the 03’s that I’ve owned or observed over the years with an 05 barrel date on them were converted to 30-06.

[Dick Hosmer]

Dick, what convinced you that the barrel was still in 30-03?
All of the 03’s that I’ve owned or observed over the years with an 05 barrel date on them were converted to 30-06.

The barrel was still long, AND accepted a dummy .30-'03 round, which seller had on hand for demonstration.