Remington 1903 Serial Number Database?

[cquickel]

All.

Has anyone started an online database of Remington 1903 observed serial numbers and characteristics? The Krag Collector's Association started one a few years ago and it's interesting to see where the different models started and stopped, plus other characteristics based on the serial numbers entered by members. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RZovNT_h9sT72wqgKp4Yf6xIqUQO1PQY8FC3iBzPorU/edit#gid=1333300972.

I have already started one based on serial numbers I found on the internet. But I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Also interesting to document Red Star Rem 1903s.

[lyman]

the link shows a deleted spreadsheet,

there were several threads here (likely the old version) and a few other places on the Red Star guns, IIRC Rick the Librarian started one for a rifle he had,

did you also try Vishooters?

[Dick Hosmer]

There is a full list of the "red star" guns in MAA V31#4 (2009) RTL did the photography. In all honesty, I did not look this up of the kindness of my heart - just so happened to be the issue I was browsing yesterday!

[lyman]

MAA?

[Dick Hosmer]

MAA - "Man-at-Arms" - is the official collector magazine of the NRA. Sorry, really thought it was better known.

[cquickel]

Thank Dick,

I may have that issue

Curt

[Dick Hosmer]

Thank Dick,

I may have that issue

Curt

If you don't. I can send you a photo of the page, or maybe I'll just post it here for everyone.

[lyman]

If you don't. I can send you a photo of the page, or maybe I'll just post it here for everyone.

post it here please and thank you

[Ned Butts]

All.

Has anyone started an online database of Remington 1903 observed serial numbers and characteristics? The Krag Collector's Association started one a few years ago and it's interesting to see where the different models started and stopped, plus other characteristics based on the serial numbers entered by members. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RZovNT_h9sT72wqgKp4Yf6xIqUQO1PQY8FC3iBzPorU/edit#gid=1333300972.

I have already started one based on serial numbers I found on the internet. But I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Also interesting to document Red Star Rem 1903s.

New link to Krag data base
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CR4tIO79ptb68zHu9LnU4nKb3lGNuH44sv10nCsD9DI/edit#gid=2116615855

[lyman]

New link to Krag data base
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CR4tIO79ptb68zHu9LnU4nKb3lGNuH44sv10nCsD9DI/edit#gid=2116615855

I have 3 in my personal collection, and 3 in shop inventory,
do you want the serial numbers?

all are 98's, exp for the 96 that was welded up, and the 99 carbine

[Ned Butts]

Absolutely, and any information and details. You can add them yourself here
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdpc6p-TYq0Pemgo7AINFXgui_Ors1F_-JP5Pt986kIlj4n-A/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1
or send me the information and I can add it for you.
Thanks

[lyman]

excellent, I'll dig them out and add then as soon as I can

[cmcwilliams]

How did the "RedStar" guns gun into and out of Britain without ever being export marked by the Brits?

[jmm03]

not to derail, but has anyone ever found any info on the serial numbers of the 03A3 national match rifles that were finally dispersed from the Raritan Arsenal?

[Kragrifle]

Go back and try to search any replies by John Beard. If you can find them it will give you a good thumbnail on when what happened in the changes made. Also, a guy named William Hansen has done a number of articles in the otherwise lack luster Springfield Research. This is also a good source of information. Excellent articles.
Too bad Mr. Beard has not put a book or pamphlet together as he is the last living expert on the 1903 Remington rifle.

[Johnny P]

The rifles for conversion to NM specs were randomly chosen from those with suitable four groove barrels, and with only a handful ever issued as a match rifle almost all the remaining rifles were sold to some lucky recipient as a standard 03-A3 rifle. I have not heard of anyone compiling a serial number list.

In the Springfield Research books I have not come across any rifle in the assumed serial number range listed as a NM.

[lyman]

How did the "RedStar" guns gun into and out of Britain without ever being export marked by the Brits?

the Brits did not export mark them,

the marks are proof's,
each gun that entered the country or was sold out of service, was supposed to be proofed,

Century, Interarms etc would contract the proof houses in London, or mostly Birmingham, to proof, and sometimes import mark (pre 68 would be marked England)

or the importer here would put the import marks on them,


who and how they were sold would determine any markings

[Johnny P]

Since the beginning of time any firearm sold commercially in England that was manufactured in a country that did not have a reciprocal gun proof agreement with England had to be proofed before being sold commercially, and the U.S. had no gun proof law. Since the rifles in question were going to the British military they did not have to be proofed when entering the country; only prior to being sold commercially.

It is thought that there were some shenaigans by a USAAF officer in getting the rifles out of England without the required proofing.

[Kragrifle]

There are several excellent articles on the AF LTC associated with the ?Red Star Remington 1903s. From what I have read the Brits were anxious to get all firearms out of the country following the war?s end. A number of individuals were allowed to send rifles back to the US which is why there are more non Red Star rifles than those sold through the Red Star gun shop (which is the origin of the moniker).
What I found most revealing from a historical standpoint was how afraid the British government was to be faced with an armed citizenry. Let that be a warning to all Americans!

[Johnny P]

The British didn't start selling off the Lend-Lease Model 1911A1 pistols until 1952, and this went on for several years. Most bear the post 1955 British proofs.

An unknown number of the 1515 Model 1911A1 pistols that were Lend-Leased to Canada were brought to England, where they were commercially proofed and some brought back to the United States. This one with the Canadian Broad Arrow C property marks appears to have been British proofed proofed in 1960.

https://i.postimg.cc/gjTz3RTQ/CPM.jpg

[John Beard]

To answer the original question, Larry Byrd and Bill Burrows amassed a very, very large data base of Remington and Smith-Corona serial numbers, barrel dates, and rifling grooves. I have that data base.

Articles by William Hansen on the Red Star Remingtons are filled with inaccuracies. It was for that reason a definitive article was composed and published iin Man at Arms magazine.

J.B.

[Kragrifle]

Hello Mr. Beard. Looking forward to the Birmingham show and hope to meet with you again. Any chance all that data will ever be published to the benefit of us collectors ?

[Rick the Librarian]

Over the years, I've managed to collect 157 out of the 200 "Red Star" rifles' serial numbers, most barrel dates and other information.

Will Levin told his nephew that he was told he could have imported 10,000 of them as easy as the 200 he did get. Keep in mind, he got these rifles from the British MoD.

[JimF]

Rick . . . .I thought you destroyed that avatar!

[Rick the Librarian]

Not yet!!! LOL!!

[Kragrifle]

I?d there any idea how many other rifles were returned to the US after service in England? I have read somewhere that there were others who were able to return some of these rifles. I own an early 1903 Remington with British markings on the left side of the rifle and a few bits of red paint on the rear band. It appears as an original early 1903 Remington with boxed RLB and ordnance wheel stamps on the left side of the stock. The serial number is 3053154.

[Kragrifle]

Some of the features;
50177501785017950180

[John Beard]

I?d there any idea how many other rifles were returned to the US after service in England? I have read somewhere that there were others who were able to return some of these rifles. I own an early 1903 Remington with British markings on the left side of the rifle and a few bits of red paint on the rear band. It appears as an original early 1903 Remington with boxed RLB and ordnance wheel stamps on the left side of the stock. The serial number is 3053154.

In the 1960's, Interarms of Alexandria, VA, under their "Hunters Lodge" logo, sold hundreds if not thousands of British Remingtons which they bought and re-imported from Britain. The rifles exhibit British export proof markings (which the Red Star Remingtons do not exhibit). You very likely have one of those.

J.B.

- - - Updated - - -


Hello Mr. Beard. Looking forward to the Birmingham show and hope to meet with you again. Any chance all that data will ever be published to the benefit of us collectors ?

I plan to be there for a few hours on Saturday with Herschel Garner. I am not aware of any plans to publish the Larry Byrd/Bill Burrows data base.

J.B.

[Kragrifle]

Well, a little time has passed, two articles were carefully read and I was fortunate to have just taken delivery of SN 3049391. I was wrong about the time to delivery which was almost 10 years after WW2 ended. My modest Remington 1903 collection is complete!

[Ironlip]

Over the years, I've managed to collect 157 out of the 200 "Red Star" rifles' serial numbers, most barrel dates and other information.


Hi Rick,

Do you have mine? SN 3035185 Bbl Date 1-42. The stock has grasping grooves and there are no lightening cuts on the rear sight base.
Please let me know if you need additional information.
And thank you for the excellent photography in the Man at Arms article.

Rick