Analysis of WWII German Gun Camera Footage

[Art]

This is an interesting video. There are caboodles of gun camera videos on you tube but this one is the first I've seen where there is a critique of technique of each one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iew9cu_9nf4

[togor]

Somewhere on YouTube a vid explains that cannon on German fighters made sense because they were up against heavy bombers, whereas heavy MGs made sense for allied fighters against Axis fighters.

Interesting vid, thanks for posting.

[lyman]

I've seen that vid and a few others,

one I recall was an analysis of gun camera footage from the Allied side, and directed more at strafing runs against convoys, trains etc,

IIRC one of the commentators was a Fighter Pilot,


it's all very interesting to see and get a perspective on

[bruce]

Cannons were obviously more useful for killing bombers than fighters. Had the US been facing heavy four-engined bombers, cannons would have made equal sense. As it was, facing fighters and attacking ground targets, the .50 Cal. was effective. Post war, the cannon was superior. Sincerely. bruce.

[lyman]

Cannons were obviously more useful for killing bombers than fighters. Had the US been facing heavy four-engined bombers, cannons would have made equal sense. As it was, facing fighters and attacking ground targets, the .50 Cal. was effective. Post war, the cannon was superior. Sincerely. bruce.

IIRC the Germans did not have 50 cal equivalent, nor did the British in WW2 ( the 11mm Balloon Buster was obsolete by then)

so a bank of 50's in each wing, vs .303 was much more effective

of course , we had 30 cals in a lot of airplanes at the time as well

[dryheat]

I've shot some .303 Brit. It's a lame round. That was what they used? I hope it was hopped up some for the aircraft.

[Art]

I've shot some .303 Brit. It's a lame round. That was what they used? I hope it was hopped up some for the aircraft.

There was/is a more powerful machine gun round using a boat tail bulled, Mk VIIIz.

[togor]

Art the MG131 was roughly 50 cal and it did see aircraft service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_131_machine_gun

[Art]

Art the MG131 was roughly 50 cal and it did see aircraft service.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_131_machine_gun

I am aware of that.

[barretcreek]

Interesting, Art. Thank you.

In The Guns of John Moses Browning, the author makes an interesting point about the .303 Browning MG. He states when the Hurricane was in development RAF fighter pilots insisted on loading it up with the Browning, because of its reliability vs the Maxim. In the early stage of the air war that was crucial; a reliable popgun versus a balky slugger.

[dogtag]

A lot of German fighters and bombers fell victim to that "Popgun"

[Vern Humphrey]

One advantage of the Browning .50 is you could have a lot of them -- most US fighters had 6 guns (and of course the heavy bombers had around a dozen on average.) That means they could pump out a lot of bullets in a fraction of a second -- and in ariel combat, a fraction of a second is about all the time you'll be on target. Cannons were slower firing, and too heavy to mount a lot of them on an aircraft.

[barretcreek]

A lot of German fighters and bombers fell victim to that "Popgun"

The author's point exactly. RAF pilot design input was 'give us as many as you can of those reliable Browning .303s and we'll get close enough'. They did.

[dryheat]

Another term I've never understood: cannon on an aircraft. I'm picturing artillery. I think it's 20mm but a cannon isn't in the shape of a gun to me.

[Art]

Another term I've never understood: cannon on an aircraft. I'm picturing artillery. I think it's 20mm but a cannon isn't in the shape of a gun to me.

Basically on aircraft, if a gun has a caliber that allows it to fire an explosive shell with a useful charge its a cannon. This usually starts at 15mm with 20 mm being most common in WWII. some did have lower rates of fire, but many of these guns like the German MG 151, or Japanese Type 99 Mk 2 had rates of fire around 800 - 900 rounds per minute. The Hispano cannons used by the Brits and us in the P38 had a rate of fire of about 750 rpm.

[dryheat]

Thanks, I'll mull that.

[Vern Humphrey]

Another term I've never understood: cannon on an aircraft. I'm picturing artillery. I think it's 20mm but a cannon isn't in the shape of a gun to me.

A cannon is defined as a weapon that fires an explosive projectile. Traditionally the .50 did not have explosive ammunition (with Raufoss ammo, it does now.) Twenty mm is powerful, but heavy and slow firing (nowadays, we have 20mm gatling guns that solve that problem.) In those days, a plane with a half dozen .50s could outshoot a plane with a 20mm or even two.