View Full Version : Beware the silent squib.
Been hand loading for 60 years and had my first squib yesterday. I had loaded up a test batch of ammo for my Mosin and, out on the range, I had fired maybe 25 rnds out of my bolt action, all of a sudden, pulled the trigger and click, nothing. First thought was a bad primer but then I pulled the bolt back out pops a spent case. Hummm! Further examination showed this dumb bunny has missed a powder charge in one cartridge. The primer fire had pushed a bullet 6" down the bore. Bullet was easily removed with a cleaning rod and went back to shooting. By the way I had a ball.
Giving this a bit more thought on how easy this would be for the loaders that move a loading tray around under a powder measure to charge their cases and miss one. Such a mistake with an auto loader could really create the problem that we read about every once in awhile. A person is using a semi auto , fires a fews rnds and click. First thought is a bad primer so pull the op rod back and chamber another round. OOPS, bad idea, if you have a squib load with a bullet in the barrel you have just created a bomb in front of your face. Think every time before pulling the trigger. Has everything, to this point, been normal? If not back up and check to see why.
Just found your post. Glad you caught the problem before it became a really big problem. Been reloading since 1980. Have had squibs, but only in revolvers. Never had a problem removing them. Don't even want to think about what would have happened if I'd been firing fast and let another round go w/ a bullet stuck in the barrel. Sincerely. bruce.
This is how Brandon Lee was shot and killed on the set of "The Crow". A blank was fired with a squib lodged in the barrel and out it came.
Years ago I bought some "silent" 22 rimfire ammo. Basically this was 22 ammo with no powder---just primer powered. The rounds worked great in my S&W revolver with a 6" barrel. However, when tried in a bolt action rifle (good clean bore) with the longer barrel I knew to check and sure enough, I had a squib. Not enough power to make it out. This was made by Agila. Unless they have gone to a stronger primer these should be outlawed.
picked up a big ammo estate years ago,
all surplus stuff, sold quickly,
in the pile was some stuff from a company called BER out of NY,
no one was interested in it, I could not find much on the web about the company, so I took the lone box of 357 to the range,
first 12 rounds,, no worries, but not very accurate out of the normally very accurate 686
next six, bang, bang, pfft,
I'm standing there , pistol in hand, wondering if it was a hangfire, and my buddy started to freak out,
popped the cylinder, and like nf1e, empty shell, and a squib,
popped out easy, and I downloaded the rest and checked the powder in the rest,
all had powder, but it was very inconsistent, re the powder weight,
barretcreek
03-19-2022, 04:36
After finding Zediker's Top Grade Ammo it sunk in to use my Dillon more as a processor than an ammunition plant, especially for the '06,7.62 and 5.56 ammo. Run through in batches to deprime, tumble, size, Gracey, then prime, charge each case and place in the loading block before seating bullets. For lead bullet 9,38, 44 and 45 I have powder check dies in the head.
After finding Zediker's Top Grade Ammo it sunk in to use my Dillon more as a processor than an ammunition plant, especially for the '06,7.62 and 5.56 ammo. Run through in batches to deprime, tumble, size, Gracey, then prime, charge each case and place in the loading block before seating bullets. For lead bullet 9,38, 44 and 45 I have powder check dies in the head.
I have read his AR book and Comp Reloading book,
both worth the read,
sadly he passed a few years ago
I have never had a squib, and I don't say that to brag, rather when I began reloading, I decided my process was the safest for me to insure I never missed a powder charge.
I load on single stage press, 38+ yrs, and never had a squib; When I drop the powder charge in the case, it never leaves my left hand until I seat the bullet and put it back in the loading block, a completed cartridge. That's the way I have taught others new to the hobby. What they do as they gain experience is on them.
I never felt the need to upgrade to a progressive, reference all the threads on different forums talking about the problem of visually verifying the auto powder drop.
I never wanted to drop powder while the case is in the loading block because it is too easy to be interrupted and forget where you left off, even with a flashlight checking cases.
To borrow an 80's cliche: different strokes for different folks.
I do the same, load one at a time. I keep the primed cases in blocks with the primer up, grab one with my left hand, charge and right away over to the press for seating. Somehow, perhaps old age, the charge never got loaded. Murphy?
50194
Hornady makes a die with an indicator rod on top that floats on top of the powder charge. Made for progressive presses, you set the rod depth for the charge you're using, then too low and you don't have any or enough powder, too high and you've over charged or double charged.
This is not going to appeal to us old farts who have reloaded for years and now down sizing and/or set in our ways but may be handy for new comers and those who have too many things on their minds at once while reloading.
https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-050063-Powder-Cop/dp/B003D6ZLXE
I thought I was doing a great thing when I added the LED lights to my press. Makes it easy to visually check the powder charge. Don't know how I missed one. Senior moment?
50195
I thought I was doing a great thing when I added the LED lights to my press. Makes it easy to visually check the powder charge. Don't know how I missed one. Senior moment?
50195
Just a comment, not a criticsm, but the lights do a good job of lighting the press base, but it seems to me you can't see inside the case unless you remove it from the shell holder and tip it toward you.
Is the press single stage or turret? If its a single stage, you probably already looked inside before setting the case.
I believe the light is intended for overall visibility, not necessarily to see inside the case mouths. Often, even with good lighting, when you sit at your reloading bench you cast a shadow over what you're working on.
https://www.amazon.com/KMS-Squared-Reloading-Hornady-Presses/dp/B07DCYLJ95
Just a comment, not a criticsm, but the lights do a good job of lighting the press base, but it seems to me you can't see inside the case unless you remove it from the shell holder and tip it toward you.
Is the press single stage or turret? If its a single stage, you probably already looked inside before setting the case.
Actually the lights are great for seeing in the case as I move it from my left hand to the press. Holding the case on an angle before setting it in the press, I get a direct view inside. The trick is remembering to look I guess.
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I believe the light is intended for overall visibility, not necessarily to see inside the case mouths. Often, even with good lighting, when you sit at your reloading bench you cast a shadow over what you're working on.
https://www.amazon.com/KMS-Squared-Reloading-Hornady-Presses/dp/B07DCYLJ95
With the lights on my Foster you can easily see clearly to the flash hole if you are paying attention. Perhaps what is left of my focus was somehow distracted. It is a habit to look at the powder level each load. The mind it a terrible thing to waste.
I load 50 at a time,
size, clean, deprime etc, in bulk
true up primer pockets, and swage if needed in bulk
will prime in bulk too,
load, 50 at a time
loading block holds that many
primed cases in,
one pass each under the powder measure
small light to verify each charge in a case,,, and all the same volume (as best you can, I usually pull and weigh them at random)
over the years I don't recall a squib that was one of my loads,, but did have a bad primer once, (load was fine, primer never went off)
https://youtu.be/mn0KBzK2Kho
https://youtu.be/mn0KBzK2Kho
saw that a while back,
I was on the line one day when a friends son was shooting an AR in a match,
it made an odd sound, and a bit of smoke,, and he was done for the day,
it was the 2nd AR that this guy had damaged, (he and his son were ok,) and he had also blew up a 29 smith previously
found out when he had mixed 2400 and 748 by accident,
using a dillon, and did not empty out the hopper corrrectly or thoroughly
I have had a 5-position press before I had the 4 -position Dillon 550B. Dillon recommended Dillon dies and they suggested seating on one position and crimping on another. I could not get my money back on my dies because I use powder lock out dies and powder dies; there was not enough room on the Dillon for all of my dies and I was not going to crimp in a separate operation.
F. Guffey
Beware the silent squib. I have alienated myself; I do not miss one, two or three. Some would think it gets lonely at a firing range when shooters that were shooting next to you get up in a huff and leave.
Another reloader was going to show me how to reload 45ACP; I agreed to meet him at the range. I was going to shoot his ammo, his ammo did not work, he offered it to ever shooter with a 45ACP, his ammo worked in every 1911 at the range. Then came the 'and then moment; another reloader setup at the table between us. Everything was fine until he started to shoot.
I looked over and noticed he was doing his best to pull the trigger on his Model 66 S&W 357. He could not pull the trigger, rotate the cylinder or pull the hammer back and then he did not do any better when he used two hands. I put my stuff up and then asked him if I could help him, my friend did the same. He got a drift and a small hammer and then drive the bullet back into the case. The shooter was happy, he thought he was going to continue shooting; he started to load his Model 66 with 6 more rounds. We told him we he was not going to stand between us while he tried to shoot more of his ammo. I explained to him I did not know if he failed to put powder in one case and then doubled charged the next one.
We offered to help him with his reloading, we offered to loan him equipment and then he started making claims like we could not check ammo after it was loaded. I explained to him reloaders that do not know what they are doing can't but with a little experience and equipment it can be done. And then he insisted on firing his ammo, my friend went to the range office, they came out to inform him he had choices, they told him he could purchase ammo from the or he could leave.
Back to the 45ACP ammo. I took my friends ammo home to size it, he lives about one mile from the range in Garland, TX but does not have my dies. When I got back to the range to test his ammo, his ammo flew through my 45ACP.
F. Guffey
The next time, I purchased about 800 rounds of 8mm57 ammo from Cheaper than Dirt, I asked them if the ammo they were selling would stick to a magnet, the answer was no. I drove about 40 miles to their store just North of Ft. Worth, I picked out the ammo and took it to the register, I ask him if he was the one I talked to. he said 'yes'. I then asked him about the magnet. The magnet was attached to a pole behind the register. About that time I asked him to check the ammo with the magnet. It stuck, all of it, I thought about it and decided to purchase the 8mm57 ammo for the powder, the primers were corrosive and the bullets were streakers.
I shook the cases to determine if the powder was loose before firing any of it. I chambered a round and pulled the trigger, it started to hiss and smoke, I ducked under the table and then bang, that did not ruin my day because, I had other rifles to test. I went home and started to pull down the 8mm57 ammo. Some of the cases had packed powder in the head of the case, some had caked powder behind the bullet. That was when I took my Hornady cam type bullet puller and started pulling bullets and poking powder to get it to flow. Hornady had the puller longer that I did, I had to send it back for repairs. I was not all that happy with their puller, and then they said "you make too many mistakes".
It was about that time I went for a visit. I was not pulling mistakes, I was pulling bullets from cases that were 60+ years ago, I made that clear to them before I purchased the bullet puller, at that time they said something like "You bet", "Yes sir" and "no problem". I was complaining about the puller, they said they did not have the parts they claimed they had problems with their heat treating vendor. I told them I had time and I suggested we visit the heat treating vendor. That was when they informed me they no longer use that vendor, they had another vendor.
F. Guffey
Major Tom
03-27-2022, 05:05
nfle: I see you have a 10-10 scale on your shelf. I had one years ago and it was a great scale that I do miss today. 10-10 scales are hard to find for a reasonable price. I also use a LED light on my press. Really like it!
Still have the Ohaus I have used for almost 60 years in a drawer. The 10-10 is in plain sight to remind me of how is used to be.
I have 3 10-10 Rcbs scales. It was not something I had ever planned on, one day I decided to clean my 10-10 scale, I was doing all right until my wife decided to get involved. She took the beam to the kitchen sink and started scrubbing, when she finished the beam was white, no numbers, dots and dashes, the beam was blank. I called RCBS, they offered to trade scales, I had no idea what I would get in trade, so I turned down their generous offer. And then came the Market Hall Gun show. For little money I purchased every part of a scale I could find.
I came up with enough parts to build another scale and enough parts to repair my scale and then there was another base that used the same beam as the 10-10 all for $10.00.
F. Guffey
butlersrangers
04-25-2022, 11:09
Not all squibs are due to lack of a powder charge.
I have a canister of WW-748 that has gone bad.
I discovered this when firing some reloads in .30-40 and .30-06 caliber bolt guns.
Things were going normal, when suddenly, I had what sounded like primer misfires.
When the rifle bolts were opened, I found the primers had actually fired. The extracted cartridge-cases were 'damp' on the exterior and contained a moist & acrid column/glob of unburned powder.
The jacketed projectiles had gone about 4 inches up the bore and were easily driven out the breech with a steel rod.
I had to toss about 5 pounds of WW-748. Fortunately this happened in turn-bolt rifles and not auto-loaders.
All sorts of causes. The important thing is to be aware that a squib can happen when you least expect it.
I have a canister of WW-748 that has gone bad.
When did it go bad?
F. Guffey
butlersrangers
04-25-2022, 10:55
Last Fall, 2021, I should have trusted my nose. When I opened the canister, there was more of a vinegar smell then I remembered.
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