Krag at the range

[kj47]

Took the krag out to the range, these old eyes have a hard time with the sights. my best group was 3.5" group @ 50yds. My bud has 20/20 vision wants to try it to see if it can do better. I suppose it would be ok for hunting. I have set of dies for reloading. Ammo used was rem 180gr.

[JimF]

. . . . . I have set of dies for reloading. . . . .

When you handload, I STRONGLY recommend neck sizing only!

Brass is EXPENSIVE!!!

[bruce]

I have a 1902 Krag infantry rifle w/ a excellent bore. After Easter I hope to have a chance to take a little time off and do some reloading. Will be trying some loads using cast bullets and of course standard 150 and 180 gr. jacketed bullets. Going to have to see what I can come up with for powder. Have some Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique, so I am good to go w/ the cast lead bullets. Got to figure out what will be best for starting loads for the jacketed. Have learned the hard way, always best to start w/ mild loads before moving on up to the full-power stuff. Let's me get zeroed on paper, etc., before moving on out to the 100/200 yd. ranges. Sincerely. bruce.

[jon_norstog]

Took the krag out to the range, these old eyes have a hard time with the sights. my best group was 3.5" group @ 50yds. My bud has 20/20 vision wants to try it to see if it can do better. I suppose it would be ok for hunting. I have set of dies for reloading. Ammo used was rem 180gr.

I have old eyes, too. In fact all my S#$@ is old. What helps me shooting with iron sights is to use cheap reading glasses to sharpen up the sights without blurring the target too badly. 1.5s work pretty well for me ...

Good luck!

jn

[bruce]

Re: Reading glasses!!! Yes!!! Makes all the difference between shotgun groups and real good groups. Also w/ the Krag or Springifield, you can use a file to square up the top of the front sight so that you have a good square front sight. You can add a very thin brass shim to each side of the front sight to get a wider blade. Epoxy will hold it very well. Shape and profile the shim to match the original blade. Buy a spare rear sight for shooting. Drill out the little flip up rear aperture till you can clearly see your front sight. Makes range shooting loads more fun. Sincerely. bruce.

[Dick Hosmer]

Also, use a sight hood to shield the blade from glare. The long snap-on one is better for this (even if butt-ugly) than the shorter M88. When EVERYTHING is right, the trapdoor WILL shoot MOA at 200yds. I've not done it, but know someone who has.

[kj47]

I noticed that pointed reloads tend to jam on this 1896, round nose feed flawlessly. I do have the front sight cover. I was also shooting from a sled. This is the enjoyment of the sport. I will take JimF advice & neck size only. Thanks to all for the advice

[jon_norstog]

I noticed that pointed reloads tend to jam on this 1896, round nose feed flawlessly. I do have the front sight cover. I was also shooting from a sled. This is the enjoyment of the sport. I will take JimF advice & neck size only. Thanks to all for the advice

My first Krag was and 1895 carbine that would feed anything, never a hangup or jam. The one I use hunting is a cut-down '98 and spitzers will often hang up. The gun will also take the tips off plastic-tipped spitzers. If yours hangs up pointed bullets, maybe a little work with a dremel will fix it. Or maybe you'll want to stick with RNs, at least in cases where you want a reliable follow-up shot.

jn

[bruce]

Possibly feeding has something to do with when a rifle was produced? The serial number of my Krag puts it in 1902 production. I have .30-40 ammunition from about 1930 up through current production, either Remington or Winchester with both round nose and pointed configuration. No problems feeding any of these rounds. Also feeds spitzer profile cast lead bullets. Standard action w/ no alterations at all. Sincerely. bruce.

[JimF]

Kj . . . . .
Just for your knowledge benefit . . . . .
When you do shoot your Krag, hold a fired case up alongside an unfired round. Take notice of the area of the neck/shoulder silhouette, and observe how DIFFERENT they appear. See how the shoulder has MOVED FORWARD a good amount?
This is why handloading is so important . . . .for saving brass.

[fguffey]

This is why handloading is so important . . . .for saving brass.

The Krag uses the thickness of the rim to off set the length of the chamber. Problem, there is not a component manufacturer that makes cases for reloaders that know what they are doing. Another problem, I do not know a reloader that knows how much clearance their Krag has because of the skinny rims.

I have checked/measured the thickness of the rim, most had at least .017" clearance. That must not mean anything to the component manufacturer because .017" is beyond field gage failure.

The purpose of the rim is to hold the case to the rear, excessive clearance, because of the thin rim defeats the purpose of the rim. And then we add the firing pin and primer,
and observe how DIFFERENT they appear. See how the shoulder has MOVED FORWARD a good amount? The bullet, powder and case moved forward when fired. When fired the case locks to the chamber leaving the rear of the case unsupported against the bolt face.

And then comes the complicated part, when fired the rear of the case is driven back against the bolt face while the rest of the case is locked to the chamber. The case being driven to the rear of the chamber is the reason the Krag is subject to case head separation.

So when the case fills the chamber when fired leave it that way by not sizing the case or purchase cases that are longer between the datum at the shoulder and bolt face; but, again, component manufacturers do not make cases for reloaders that know what they are doing.

F. Guffey

[JimF]

Yup, Mr. Guffy . . . .

Finally, we AGREE on something!

I’ve been using “the Ken Waters” method of sizing brass for both the .303 British and the 30-40 Krag, and I’m convinced I get extended case life!

[fguffey]

I’m convinced I get extended case life

I have a 1905 Ross and a few P14s and then there was the Krag, it was part of an inheritance, they wanted me to check it out and say something nice about the rifle and the man that did all of the reloading. I told them I would give them the rifle if they would promise me, they would never shoot it. A friend gave me a receiver that was drilled for a scope that would fit the Krag, they could never make their mind up and I thought that was the best thing they could do.

Their deer hunting has never suffered, not in the last 10 years.

F. Guffey

[butlersrangers]

Many enthusiasts shoot, reload, and have great success with Krag rifles and carbines (with very good Brass life).

Rimmed bottle-neck cartridges have virtues and many Krag, Lee-Enfield and other rimmed military cartridge rifles perform without ammunition problems and 'head-separations'.
There are useful reloading 'tricks' that can improve case to chamber fit and improve 'case-life'.

The opinion/knowledge/experience expressed in the last post did not specify what was wrong with the 'inherited' Krag.

Maybe unintentionally, it seemed to trash all U.S. .30-40 Krag-Jorgensen rifles.
It offered nothing very practical to the enthusiast, to overcome the problem with cartridge-rim thickness in some Krag rifles.

'Useful' and helpful suggestions to a poster's question or reloading problem are not addressed by heavily proclaiming one's expertise, knowledge, and vast array of equipment.

A lot of guys shoot well and get by with a powder scale, reloader-handbook, and a "Lee-Loader".

The Krag rifles and carbines, that I own and shoot, will not close on a 'rim-gauge' that is .073" thick. My cartridge case rims normally measure .063" to .064" thick. The 'free travel' or gap, between the Krag recessed bolt-face and the base of a chambered cartridge, is running from .003" to .006" on eight different rifles and carbines.

What I find rather amazing is that (unsized) 'fired brass', from any one of these eight Krags, will chamber and extract in all its mates without extra effort.
The only Krag that I segregate fired brass for is a model 1896, that likely has earlier (and slightly different) chamber dimensions.

It was once a common civilian gun-smithing practice to 'lap' the single locking-lug on a U.S. Krag, so that the bolt guide-rib made contact with the rear of the receiver.
This theoretically increased action strength. However, it also removed casehardened steel from the locking-lug and increased head-space or free travel.
A Krag that underwent this 'lapping' procedure or one with a worn Bolt can likely be restored by replacing the Bolt with a 'New-Old-Stock Bolt', (for about $80). This may be an easy cure for potential head-space issues.

A Krag, that has excessive head-space or free travel, can have Brass 'fire-formed' to its chamber.
A technique 'Parashooter' has dispayed in past posts for .303 and .30-40 ammo, utilizes small open 'hoops' of clipped mono-filament fishing line.
The 'hoop' is snapped around a loaded cartridge body in front of the rim.
When chambered, the cartridge base is held tight against the bolt-face.
Upon firing, case expansion is forward, allowing the brass to shape in the shoulder area of the chamber. Routine annealing of case necks aids the process.
Neck-sizing only, helps preserve the fire-formed shoulder.

[bruce]

Very interesting OP and responses. Never realized that rim thickness might be problematic. Do know that with a modicum of care, it is possible to get good results on the range with well developed handholds. Happily have now got a selection of loaded factory ammo and some new brass, a set of dies and some primers and bullets both jacketed and cast. So, now its time to see what I can come up with for powder and get to loading! Look forward to trying out various loads in my 1902 Krag. With any kind of luck, I'll find a good load that will let me use it for a little deer hunting come the fall. Sincerely. bruce.