Reloading for 1865 1st Allin

[Carlsr]

I have a M65 that I?m just dying to shoot!! About 3 months ago I sent the only 58 rim fire round I have to RCC brass, they are a company that reproduces rim fire cartridges. These cartridges utilize a 22 caliber blank for the primer and are off set to mimic a rim fire.
While waiting for these cartridges, which could take up to six months I found a video on making brass for 58 rim fire on YouTube. I bought a box of 28 gauge brass shot shells along with acorn blanks. I now have a case ready to drill for the blank but now I need a bullet.
Would any 58 caliber mine ball work since this rifle as a musket shot those bullets?
The muzzle on my rifle measures between .575 and .585 so would a .580 diameter 500 grain bullet work or should I be smaller?
Dick had sent me information on this round some time ago which states bullet diameter of .590 but molds or bullets in that diameter are not available.
Hopefully someone here may have some knowledge on reloading for these rifles.

[Dick Hosmer]

Have zero experience loading this round, but would have to assume that a standard Minie bullet which its' huge cavity would expand to fill the bore just as it did in the muzzleloader. Have no idea how that bullet works with the 28ga. case, such as does the mouth need to be belled at all? Can case be crimped? Etc. Will you be using dies (are they even available) or assembling the loads by hand? They don't need to be super-sturdy as I assume you'll be shooting from a bench and handling them carefully. Hard to imagine the arm will be very accurate, but it will be fun to do, just to say you have. Good luck with your endeavor.

[Carlsr]

I also have zero experience also Dick lol!! All will be done by hand but I may experiment with some type mechanical crimping.
Her is the link, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QpUaSb8Gio
Hopefully that will work to watch it. The video is somewhat boring and could use a little more info but is helpful.
Just called RCC brass and the case has still not been drawn up yet so going to finish one of my own.
Hope the link works.

[Carlsr]

Looks like all went well with my trial casing so now to make more and order bullets.
First case primer fired as intended which was a surprise. The hole for the blank needs to be right on the edge of the rim.
Here is the case.
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[Dick Hosmer]

Hmmm - what is used to fill the hole for the normal primer?

[Carlsr]

I drill out the pocket then tap for 1/4-20. I then insert a brass bolt until lit is flush with the inside bottom then cut it. I then solder it in.

[Major Tom]

WOW! You went to a lot of trouble making cases using 22 blanks! I salute you!

[Carlsr]

Wasn’t very difficult Tom. I ordered a mold this morning off eBay. It’s a lee aluminum mold that produces a 578 diameter 480 grain bullet. Will be here some time during next week hopefully.

[butlersrangers]

Advice from my .58 caliber CW Muzzle-Loading days:

Use pure Lead for your cast Minie Balls.
A 50/50 mix of Bee's Wax and bacon tallow makes a good lube, (or Crisco in place of tallow).
Put an old coffee cup with the 50/50 mix in a pan of water. Heat till the water boils, then reduce heat to gently 'rolling boil'.
As lube components melt, stir with old screwdriver for consistency.

Hold bullets by nose with a pair of pliers and dip bullet skirt/grooves into melted mix.
Place bullets 'skirt down' on a sheet of aluminum foil and allow lube to cool and solidify.

FWIW - I took a large washer and drilled the hole open to 9/16". I polished inside of the hole with emery cloth on a shaft, until an 'un-lubed' .58 caliber slug would pass through.

Newly lubed bullets are pressed through the modified washer with a thumb, which trims off excessive lube.
Occasionally, a butter knife is used to clean mass of accumulating lube off of the washer and put the excess lube back into the melting-cup.
(A little messy but cheap and effective).

BTW - Guys, who shoot .577 caliber Sniders, often dip cartridge bullet-nose into a container of "Udderly Smooth" moisturizing cream, at the bench just prior to loading.
It keeps the powder fouling in barrel soft, as well as, moisturizing their skin.

[Carlsr]

Thanks for all the advice!! I have 20-1 lead that I use for my trapdoors and martini Henry. The lead I have should be okay I guess, not pure but close. I use a 50/50 mix of bees wax and coconut oil for my martini Henry so figure since I already have those ingredients I’ll give it a try.
Never used the underlying smooth but could use a skin moisturizing :icon_lol:

[Carlsr]

okay, so I loaded 3 rounds with the mold I bought which turned out to be the new version of the mini ball. I don't quite like it as it looks like the end of the bullet is cut off which also makes it shorter.
I seated it up to the 2nd grease grove to get somewhat close to the original case length of 1.690.
My only issue is that I have no way to crimp the case in order to keep the bullet in place.
I used 50 grains of 2ff which i was able to compress a little over an 1/8" so as not to seat too deep. On one round I used a home made wad so I was able to compress the powder a little further. Since the bullet is basically a flat nose I used a piece of wood to cover the bullet and seated it with my press.
Being that the bullet is loose in the case would that be an issue as far as an air gap?
Thanks for any advise. Her are some pics.
5046150462

[Dick Hosmer]

Some cartridges, usually pistol, had stab crimps. Perhaps you could make a sort of 'cradle' to hold the round and then tap with a prick punch at three or four locations around the case mouth. You might want to round and polish the head of the punch. Your rounds don't need to be really sturdy, just so they don't fall apart while loading. You do not want an air gap!!

[JimF]

Quite right . . . . .NO AIR GAP with black powder!!

Being a single shot, no crimping is necessary

[Carlsr]

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- - - Updated - - -


https://photos.app.goo.gl/V6T4DJj434KARg3L9

[Carlsr]

My rounds fired perfectly!!
I attached a video shooting this 150 plus year old rifle. Probably hasn't been fired in over 100 years most likely.
I reduced the load to 30 gr. On 2 rounds and 40 gr. On the last round. Only shot at about 25 yards in my brother's back yard as an hour ride to the range threw shore traffic wasn't going to happen today.
Very accurate at 25 yards, put the last round right threw the 2nd shot.
Enjoy the video, I need to loose some weight LOL!!!

[Dick Hosmer]

Very good - I especially noted two things: no keyholing, and no smoke/gas leakage at breech.

[w10085]

This is a little late but I have paper patched minie balls to get the diameter larger for cartridge guns. My first 50-70 cartridges were done this way. It worked as a stopgap for me but may be fine long term to keep from buying a custom mould. Good luck!

[Carlsr]

Paper patching may help to tighten the bullet in the case without having to crimp it?? Thanks w10085, didn’t think of that.