View Full Version : More Electric Vehicles
Johnny P
07-24-2022, 07:21
Recently read a piece on the Lucid electric vehicles which aren't exactly grocery getters as base prices run from about $80,000 to over $150,000. The article gave the charging times for the Lucid Air using various chargers from 10% to 90%.
Level 3 (350 volt), 46 minutes (Fastest charger available today)
Level 2 (240 volt), 5 hours plus
120 Volt household, about 4 days.
Charging slows down during the last 10% of charge, and on the 240 volt charger the last 10% of charge to top it off would take about 2 hours.
Major Tom
07-24-2022, 07:51
I can think of at least a hundred different realistic ways to spend $80-150 thousand!
The battery technology we have today can not tolerate any type of fast charge w/o damaging the battery.
Who is going to want or can wait at charging stations this long? Also, if a lot of people started driving EV's think of all the long lines waiting for the "plug-in's" to become available. It would compare to a gas pump nozzle delivering a few drops of gasoline a minute. Until drastic changes come about I can only see EV's being useful for very short trips with at home charging being the only/best route.
Solar panels in top of vehicles would hardly be noticed on pickups and SUV's and could supplement battery charging when parked outside but the gov't couldn't tax them so that is out.
I would like to have a EV. "Have", as in given to me. I would never pay so much $ for so much inconvenience but would like to play with one limiting my travels to a 20-50 mile radius.
Great for cities--short commutes--poor for everything else.
Johnny P
07-24-2022, 10:17
I can think of at least a hundred different realistic ways to spend $80-150 thousand!
Really wasn't trying to get you to buy one. Just a little information on present technology charging times.
As has been said, EVs are not a bad second car option, especially in these days when more work from home.
the idea is not to get everyone doing long distance on them,
the idea is to keep the distances short, and have you use the Train, bus, or whatever for long distance,
I will never ride a bus if I can at all help it.
barretcreek
07-25-2022, 01:53
Virtue Signalling ain't cheap.
blackhawknj
07-25-2022, 02:18
I do not understand why they do not have an onboard recharging system. Years ago I was having battery problems with my VW-I was on the 6th years of a 3 year battery.
lpcullen
08-04-2022, 07:19
My GF's son in law just bought a Hyundai Ionic 5. I think it cost him around 50 grand. He loves it but I think he spends a lot of time at the charging station. I think he said it only has a range of around 300 or so miles and a thirty minute charge only gives him 80%. Don't get me wrong it's a cool car but I think he jumped the gun getting it. Here in Oklahoma I don't think the infrastructure is in place yet to have a bunch of these EV's. There just aren't that many places to charge them.
My GF's son in law just bought a Hyundai Ionic 5. I think it cost him around 50 grand. He loves it but I think he spends a lot of time at the charging station. I think he said it only has a range of around 300 or so miles and a thirty minute charge only gives him 80%. Don't get me wrong it's a cool car but I think he jumped the gun getting it. Here in Oklahoma I don't think the infrastructure is in place yet to have a bunch of these EV's. There just aren't that many places to charge them.
From what all I read the charging stations are not in place anywhere as needed. Something I brought up before, with a 30 minute charging time think of how many stations a single "gas station" would need. A lot of wasted real estate. Pumping gasoline only takes about 5 minutes so even long lines waiting to fill up will move.
Ideally these type vehicles would work great in cities where short commutes are common but here again, the real estate to supply all those charging stations would not be there. Many (in cities) park on the streets if they can own a car at all so charging at home would be out for them too.
Retiree's such as myself could make good use of one but the added cost would never justify what little gas I use these days plus the electricity needed isn't free either.
So much info is not available yet like depreciation, battery life (which will vary by manf and usage), range at Interstate speeds, a/c and heater drain, battery cost, life of the motors, competent service mechanics and on and on.
Mostly a toy?
the idea is not to get everyone doing long distance on them,
the idea is to keep the distances short, and have you use the Train, bus, or whatever for long distance,
The last time I was on a train, 39 hours from St. Louis to New Port News Va, 1966. All of us GI's were loaded on to the last car. It had wooden benches for seating. That train pulled onto sidings to let freight trains pass us. We were not allowed to use the dining car. Had to eat out of vending machines at the stations where we stopped to pick up and discharge passengers. I'll never get on a train again.
one shot
08-04-2022, 11:34
electric cars = electric heat so your mileage will soon be out in the winter
The last time I was on a train, 39 hours from St. Louis to New Port News Va, 1966. All of us GI's were loaded on to the last car. It had wooden benches for seating. That train pulled onto sidings to let freight trains pass us. We were not allowed to use the dining car. Had to eat out of vending machines at the stations where we stopped to pick up and discharge passengers. I'll never get on a train again.
Sorry you guys were treated like garbage. Must have been a free service of the RR or a result of a special price negotiated by the govt'.
Now days you can travel in style on Amtrak which travels at 150mph on 100 year old tracks that were designed for 35mph. You will get to your destination quicker too providing your destination is heaven cause it seems they have wrecks on a daily basis.
blackhawknj
08-04-2022, 08:23
In 1969 after completing Jump School those of us who were headed to Fort Bragg were loaded onto busses, IIRC we had a meal stop.
My mother-b. 1913 remembered the Baker Electric owned by a friend of her grandmother. Gave a very quiet ride, but a slow one.
There was the Stanley Steamer, I recall reading in the late 50s that the Turbine Car was the Car of Tomorrow, then there was the Wankel Engine.
I remember the Wankel. Someone always comes up with something edgy.
-But its highly experimental design made it the most aerodynamically unstable aircraft ever built.-
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/grumman-x-29-nasa-darpa-fighter-plane/index.html
I agree with the sentiment. How do all those EC's get charged up on a 300 mile trip on Memorial day?
Turbines work well.
well Dryheat,
it we put a windmill on top of the EV,, then as it drives down the road, the windmill would generate enough electricity to charge the car,
what could go wrong?
well Dryheat,
it we put a windmill on top of the EV,, then as it drives down the road, the windmill would generate enough electricity to charge the car,
what could go wrong?
Perpetual motion. There ought to be a way..
Anybody remember the Suzuki RE5? Wankel engine. Weight of a Gold Wing with 500cc displacement. Saw one once, heard it run. Strange bird.
Mazda Cosmos
and RX 7's were Rotary (wankel)
Mazda Cosmos
and RX 7's were Rotary (wankel)
My wife's BF, right before me, drove an RX7. Wankel never really caught on. Knew the guy, gotta say he set things up pretty good for me after he dumped her. My gain, his loss by a mile.
one shot
08-05-2022, 03:56
worked on a Mazda rotary rx7 we put a turbo on it not my car but made alot of money street racing
Johnny P
08-06-2022, 11:14
The rotary engine was just never developed to the point where it competed with the piston engine. Fuel economy was never good even in the small cars it was used in, and it had to burn a certain amount of oil to lubricate the engine seals. While they produced high horsepower for their small size, low end torque was terrible.
Best I remember they didn't run very clean either. The main thing was though, when they needed to be rebuilt either they couldn't be overhauled or it just wasn't cost worthy to do so.
one shot
08-06-2022, 05:53
would you feel confident driving across America in a EV ,can you recharge it and go on the fly
They don't fly yet. Can you charge them on the fly? Sort of. So Musk sends thirty thousand little satillites to space and we have to contend with 30K charging stations. Just doesn't seem like the old days.
would you feel confident driving across America in a EV ,can you recharge it and go on the fly
You could with the Chevrolet Volt. It had a range of only 40 miles but then a small gas engine generator would cut in and charge the batteries. Even though gas was being used it got good MPG and it wouldn't leave you stranded.
No longer made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Volt
Major Tom
08-07-2022, 05:28
Seems like every car manufacturer is coming out with an EV. Still a lot of obstacles associated with all EVs'. Cost is one and charging them is another. I think there will come a day when there will be a lot of EVs' not being sold and dealers stuck with them!
one shot
08-07-2022, 06:00
I would buy one but it needs to be charged at a lunch stop or something similar so I could keep going , looking at 2000 + miles trips
My take on EVs is dismal. Some serious questions come to mind:
Our electrical grid currently has trouble coping with the demand for power during extremely hot weather resulting in brown outs and rolling blackouts in some major cities. What will happen when we all have to plug the car in each night to recharge the battery?
The batteries have a finite life span. So, what happens when you are told that your 10 year old EV needs a $15,000 battery or that a replacement may not even be available? On top of that, the electric motors may not last and will require rebuilding or replacement for a couple grand each. Is there any value in such a vehicle?
Many gas powered cars are still going strong after 10 years. Regular maintenance and synthetic oil makes a huge difference. My old reliable 2011 Sienna with nearly 200k on the odometer still makes the trip from Pittsburgh to Florida each winter and, while we often talk about replacing it with a new hybrid Sienna, there is really no reason to get rid of it.
Will there even be a market for used EVs?
Hybrids make sense because they are self charging and some of the mpg ratings are impressive. I own one (2018 Highlander) and I admire the technology that went into building it.
How about this.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=481667677295136&set=a.471884204940150
To make things a little more simple, there are 3 basic types of hybrid cars: series, parallel, and mild hybrid.
The true series system works much like a train. The electric motors propel the car at all times. The gas engine only charges the batteries so it can be smaller than an engine designed to power the weight of the car. The Fisker Karma and Chevrolet Volt were the only 2 that I know of and both are discontinued now.
By definition :
"In a series hybrid, the electric motor handles all the driving and the gasoline engine only recharges the battery pack. When the driver starts the engine, power is received from the battery pack to the electric motor which turns the wheels. On longer trips (beyond 50 miles or so), the gas engine provides power. Series hybrids are more expensive than parallel hybrids because they carry larger batteries to provide power for higher speeds [source: HybridCenter]. The Fisker Karma is an example of a series plug-in hybrid.
Just like the series hybrid, the parallel hybrid uses both an internal combustion and electric engine. But this is where the similarities end. In the parallel hybrid, the conventional and electric engines are attached to one transmission which allows both of them to power the car at the same time. The fuel tank supplies gasoline to the engine while the generator charges the batteries. This type of hybrid is more suitable for traveling long distances. More drivers prefer parallel hybrids to series hybrids because they are more fuel-efficient. Examples of parallel hybrid vehicles are the Honda Insight, the Chevy Malibu and the Toyota Prius [source: Hybridcars.com].
There's also a variation called a mild hybrid, the least expensive of the hybrid bunch. The mild hybrid doesn't function on just the electric engine. Its electric motor assists the gas engine when more power is needed. When the car begins to slow down or sits still, the control unit shuts down the engine so the vehicle is not burning fuel or polluting the air like a conventional car. When the driver puts the car in gear or accelerates, the battery starts the motor again [source: Hybridcars.com]. In full hybrids, the electrical and gas engines can propel the motor by working together or operating on their own."
This article states that parallel hybrids get better mpg than the series. I kind of doubt that because I remember when GM tried a hybrid version on their C-1500's. The hybrids cost more than the conventional gas model yet got about the same and sometimes worse mileage.
A mechanics nightmare.
To make things a little more simple, there are 3 basic types of hybrid cars: series, parallel, and mild hybrid.
The true series system works much like a train. The electric motors propel the car at all times. The gas engine only charges the batteries so it can be smaller than an engine designed to power the weight of the car. The Fisker Karma and Chevrolet Volt were the only 2 that I know of and both are discontinued now.
By definition :
"In a series hybrid, the electric motor handles all the driving and the gasoline engine only recharges the battery pack. When the driver starts the engine, power is received from the battery pack to the electric motor which turns the wheels. On longer trips (beyond 50 miles or so), the gas engine provides power. Series hybrids are more expensive than parallel hybrids because they carry larger batteries to provide power for higher speeds [source: HybridCenter]. The Fisker Karma is an example of a series plug-in hybrid.
Just like the series hybrid, the parallel hybrid uses both an internal combustion and electric engine. But this is where the similarities end. In the parallel hybrid, the conventional and electric engines are attached to one transmission which allows both of them to power the car at the same time. The fuel tank supplies gasoline to the engine while the generator charges the batteries. This type of hybrid is more suitable for traveling long distances. More drivers prefer parallel hybrids to series hybrids because they are more fuel-efficient. Examples of parallel hybrid vehicles are the Honda Insight, the Chevy Malibu and the Toyota Prius [source: Hybridcars.com].
There's also a variation called a mild hybrid, the least expensive of the hybrid bunch. The mild hybrid doesn't function on just the electric engine. Its electric motor assists the gas engine when more power is needed. When the car begins to slow down or sits still, the control unit shuts down the engine so the vehicle is not burning fuel or polluting the air like a conventional car. When the driver puts the car in gear or accelerates, the battery starts the motor again [source: Hybridcars.com]. In full hybrids, the electrical and gas engines can propel the motor by working together or operating on their own."
This article states that parallel hybrids get better mpg than the series. I kind of doubt that because I remember when GM tried a hybrid version on their C-1500's. The hybrids cost more than the conventional gas model yet got about the same and sometimes worse mileage.
A mechanics nightmare.
Excellent article. This technology is still evolving. Toyota is probably further along than other car makers in using hybrid technology since their Prius has been around for many years. Their latest generation of parallel hybrids uses only a four cylinder gas engine that increased the overall mileage in their larger vehicles (Sienna and Highlander) to 35 MPG and the Prius gets over 52 MPG.
The computer on my Highlander decides when to go all electric and when to share the load between the gas and electric motors. It does it seamlessly. The best overall gas mileage I experienced on my V6 Highlander was 32 MPG on a trip to the Outer Banks of North Carolina. The roads were totally flat and the speed limits were mostly 45 MPH. My overall gas mileage around Pittsburgh is 25-27 MPG since it is impossible to avoid the hills.
Excellent article. This technology is still evolving. Toyota is probably further along than other car makers in using hybrid technology since their Prius has been around for many years. Their latest generation of parallel hybrids uses only a four cylinder gas engine that increased the overall mileage in their larger vehicles (Sienna and Highlander) to 35 MPG and the Prius gets over 52 MPG.
The computer on my Highlander decides when to go all electric and when to share the load between the gas and electric motors. It does it seamlessly. The best overall gas mileage I experienced on my V6 Highlander was 32 MPG on a trip to the Outer Banks of North Carolina. The roads were totally flat and the speed limits were mostly 45 MPH. My overall gas mileage around Pittsburgh is 25-27 MPG since it is impossible to avoid the hills.
25 to 27 mpg? Hell I get 21 out of my 1/2 ton crew cab GMC. 19 mpg when I'm pulling my bass boat. Of course it all evens out because the bass boat gets about two gallons per mile.
25 to 27 mpg? Hell I get 21 out of my 1/2 ton crew cab GMC. 19 mpg when I'm pulling my bass boat. Of course it all evens out because the bass boat gets about two gallons per mile.
Yep, 25-27 MPG is the actual gas mileage for my V6 out on the highway and in city driving. City driving is where the hybrids have the advantage. According to CR, the non hybrid Highlander is rated 15 MPG in city traffic and the GMC Sierra 1500 is rated 11 MPG in city traffic. Driving the hills in Pittsburgh will probably knock those numbers down a little.
Those of us who drive a hybrid soon learn how to drive with a light touch. The idea is to keep the gas engine turned off while driving as much as possible. Am I the only person driving a hybrid?
test drove a prius once
nice car, smooth ride, took a moment to get up to speed but would fly
handled horribly
bought a Cooper S instead and had fun getting 30 mpg with my foot in it
test drove a prius once
nice car, smooth ride, took a moment to get up to speed but would fly
handled horribly
bought a Cooper S instead and had fun getting 30 mpg with my foot in it
My sister once owned a Cooper and she loved it. She traded it in on an Audi S4 which is a small car with a supercharged V6 engine. It is probably the most powerful car I’ve ever driven. My daughter has it now and isn’t afraid of it, but respects what it can do.
I always preferred larger cars, so getting decent gas mileage from my 306 HP Highlander V6 hybrid is a big plus for me.
Developing torque is the big advantage that electric motors have over gas engines. Electric motors produce torque instantly when voltage is applied while gas engines need high RPMs to produce similiar torque. The performance of the newer 4 cylinder hybrids compares favorably to the V6s because of the help they receive from the electric motors.
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