View Full Version : The M1 Carbine as a Defensive Tool
The carbine gets flak as a combat weapon and some, but not all of it, is deserved.
However, the little rifle shone as a police rifle in many countries, especially with good ammunition with expanding bullets.
The same things that made it a fine patrol rifle for the law dogs also can make it a fine home defense weapon if some allowances are made for some of its operational problems. You need good magazines and at least a new operating spring to insure the necessary reliability.
I bought one of the CMP carbines the Italians sent back and have been quite happy with it. It did have one malfunction about every 100-150 rounds usually a failure to eject. Picking the best magazines and the new spring seems to have solved both problems and it hasn't had a malfunction in several hundred rounds.
My wife, who is a very small woman, 4'11" 110 pounds loves the rifle and it's her weapon to repel borders. She off and on thinks about having a red dot sight installed but I'm not doing that until I get an absolute yes on that one.
The self defense ammo we use is the currently unavailable Winchester 110 gr. semi jacketed hollow point. There is also some Israeli surplus Federal 110 gr soft point lying around. Both feed without a hiccup in the little rifle.
So there it is, a short, lightweight rifle shooting a cartridge that is more than up to the job with the right ammunition.
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I've read many reports that I have to agree with in that the carbine is about the best home defense rifle. It won out over the AR's and AK's due to the .30 carbine round being less likely to penetrate walls and hit someone or something you don't wish to hit. Plus it has a 30 round capacity. Agree that a hollow point or soft point bullet is the way to go.
Then there's the 45acp. The round is like throwing a bucket of cement at someone but there is very little chance of penetration into other rooms as well.
Some prefer a 12ga. Another good choice in that you don't need a magnum round to blast someone away. A mild round will usually do.
jjrothWA
08-15-2022, 08:36
Insure good feeding, may I suggest that the feed ramp to the chamber be lightly stone/ polish, to remove the Parkerizing with allow soft-nose ammo to flow and minimize stuttering.
Get a steel ventilated hand-guard, spot weld a CRS strip of 5/8" x 8" x 1.8", to bridge the groove and then mount a Marlin 336 base to the top surface for using a Red Dot on it.
Also, wrap a strip of silicon rubber to dampen the barrel into the stock channel.
Have fun!
I'm of the opinion that a good M4 clone with 55 grain bullets (HP if someone chooses) would have the reliability edge on a M1 carbine as a defensive weapon for the smaller-of-stature. Adjustable length stock, lower 1/3 co-witness red dot, better mags. The AR will be *louder* but that may not matter in the scheme of things. It will also be mechanically younger which means it lends itself to actual practice without undue worry about wear. Save the M1 Carbine as the "backup" gun.
Johnny P
08-16-2022, 01:57
Never cared for the 30 round magazines. Makes the otherwise compact M1 Carbine unwieldy, and can't imagine a home defense situation where the 15 round magazine would be inadequate. Unless barbarian hordes are storming your home, I can't imagine a situation where it wouldn't be fully adequate.
An original and correct M1 Carbine from August/September of 1944.
https://i.postimg.cc/qqwLdQjf/M1C2.jpg
My spousal unit doesn't care for the "M-Forgeries" for a variety of reasons. She loves her carbine, though. The fact that it weighs less than an M4 (the little rifle weighs under 6 pounds fully loaded with a sling) does matter to her.
Johnny:
I agree with you, in principle about the .30 round mags. The one I bought I picked up because it was GI, though not USGI for under 20 bucks, can't argue with that.
jjrothWA, there are options for mounting an optic that allow you to re install the handguard without messing up the pure GI aspectsof the carbine. If Wifey decides she really, really wants a red dot we'll cross that bridge then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y723KujuDA
Roadkingtrax
08-16-2022, 05:28
I always felt like the M1 Carbine was a little unreliable in their mil-surp condition. Granted I'm shooting commercial ammunition, which might be weak in comparison to GI surplus?
I never felt the need to reload .30 Carbine...but who doesn't want a few more dies on the reloading bench.
I have a stockpile of GI Ball, and never had an issue with reliability,
brother had a M2, and we test fired a few in inventory before they were sold,
never had a problem with any of them,
as far as in the house, the M4 types are too loud, and a bit of flash,
esp when you get down to 10 or 11 inches
fireball too,
I prefer a 12 ga riot type, and keep one on each floor
jjrothWA
08-17-2022, 04:50
Makecartain the magazine catch is the 30 rd mag type. [It has a small projection that engages the 30 rd mag to steady it when in the firearm.] has the underscored M [M.
Have to say my go to firearm in home defense is my 1944 M1 Carbine (National Postal Meter). I also own 2 ARs and one replica clone 1964 M16 (semi not select fire). Also a Mini 14 and 9mm PC9. I would still depend 100% on my M1 Carbine, it's in perfect condition and I have yet ever to have any type of a jam, stove pipe, bad round, etc. it is far more reliable than all my other rifles. Easy to clean easy to handle, easy even to shoot from the hip! Love it, it's light and small easy in close quarters to use. As with mine I have the 20 round mags, that all I need. I do also have Glock 19 which is always nearby. But I do love the M1 Carbine.
. . . . .. As with mine I have the 20 round mags, that all I need. . . . . ..
I’m thinking if your magazines are U.S. GI, they are 15 rounders, yes?
Sorry my mistake, 15 round mags, was typing on my phone earlier, just re-read now when I got home on the computer. My M1 Carbine along with her two older brothers :icon_wink:
Serial Number dates her April-June 1944. Found it 6 years ago in a small ammo shop, pretty dirty, it must have been in an attic for the last 50 years! Even had a dead dried out spider down the barrel! Can't say it's all original as they are difficult to actually find one. But its pretty accurate and extremely reliable! Bayonet Lug I believe came in later years not too sure, but I did manage to find an original bayonet for it. I also attached photo of the stock stampings if anyone has an idea on the 84 E stamping. Couldn't find any other stampings on the stock.
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Art that image....middle school kids defending their bedroom with a carbine?
I'll say it....bad idea.
Re: Image. Yes. It is a bad as in unpleasant image. Must say, it is reality and not just recently. In 1973 a school friend and his brother were home alone on a Saturday morning. He shot and killed one of two men trying to get into the house through the kitchen door. He used his deer rifle. Some folks wanted him charged for shooting through the door. Thankfully that did not happen. He was not a survivalist extremist. He was just a kid with his brother having to face a man alone. Sadly, it does not always turn out so well. Outside of Albany, Ga. in a little small village, one of my church children was assaulted by a man who waited until the mother had left for work. He hurt that little boy. If the authorities had not caught that man, he probably would have been severely injured or even killed by the men and women who were combing the bushes and woods for him. I wish that boy had had access to a gun. Sincerely. bruce.
What's the weak spot of the Carbine? The magazines, specifically the thin sheet metal lips deforming just enough to interfere with feeding.
So the idea is....let a kid keep one under his bed, with a full mag nearby? A mag which may or may not feed properly for having sat their loaded for months or longer? Never mind the liability to the parents if the kid takes a turn and does something illegal with the firearm. Ethan Crumbley's parents thought they were doing everything right. So did Nancy Lanza.
One of the real virtues of the Garand system is that the rounds can stay in the clip forever with no issues. Most modern pistols have re-enforced lips and high quality springs so that the mags stay reliable (eg Glock). Carbine magazines like AR magazines were almost considered disposable items. All this said I do have a few loaded AR mags in the house. They are PMAG gen3 with the top clip on them, to take the load off of the lips.
High Plaines Doug r
09-17-2022, 05:20
Art that image....middle school kids defending their bedroom with a carbine?
I'll say it....bad idea.
Thanks for your opinion, Karen...
jcg&jmbfan
09-17-2022, 05:59
Thanks for your opinion, Karen...
You just insulted a lot of Karens out there......
What's the weak spot of the Carbine? The magazines, specifically the thin sheet metal lips deforming just enough to interfere with feeding.
So the idea is....let a kid keep one under his bed, with a full mag nearby? A mag which may or may not feed properly for having sat their loaded for months or longer? Never mind the liability to the parents if the kid takes a turn and does something illegal with the firearm. Ethan Crumbley's parents thought they were doing everything right. So did Nancy Lanza.
One of the real virtues of the Garand system is that the rounds can stay in the clip forever with no issues. Most modern pistols have re-enforced lips and high quality springs so that the mags stay reliable (eg Glock). Carbine magazines like AR magazines were almost considered disposable items. All this said I do have a few loaded AR mags in the house. They are PMAG gen3 with the top clip on them, to take the load off of the lips.
well, that's like your opinion man,
and lets see,,
Carbine magazine issues,
never really experienced or heard such a thing
but I only have a few dozen of my own, mags that is, and do not shoot the one carbine I have much,
did shoot it at perry once,
have shot quite a few M2's,
never had an issue,
and yes, had some loaded for years,,,
now, re the liability to the parents,
did you allow your kids to shoot when they were young?
I know a few folks who lost kids to shooting accidents when they (the kids) were young,
terrible thing, affects the parents for life, even it they could have not done anything different
and I know many many more that were shooting at that age, some competitively,
re Lanza, ,her son was known to have issues, and she enabled him,
do you think the girl in the pic has issues?
BTW that looks like an Oleg Volk picture, he tends to do well produced pictures that are aimed, pun intended, at sparking some degree of controversy to bring home a point,
so back to the mags, they , like most magazines, and enblocs, are disposable, for the most part,
M16, AR15 or Carbine, the feed lips don't wear when they are loaded for long periods,
very long periods, like years, but then again,
I shoot GI mags in my Carbine, and my AR's and M16's get GI 20 or 30 round mags,
I have tossed one mag, in 40+ years of using and AR, one,
and I tossed that in the shooting bag, and marked it for 2 or 8 round, since there is a helluva dent in the side from who knows what,
but it will hold 2 or 8 and feed flawlessly,
You just insulted a lot of Karens out there......
this made me LOL
The point isn't if the girl has issues....the image is hypothetical.
The point is that kids are supposed to be kids, not deciding life v. death. If the adults put them in that situation then the adults have failed them.
Kids brains don't work the same as adult brains. Something every parent of a teen knows only too well.
For home defense, there are better, newer alternatives to a M1 carbine. But maybe the actual need is so unlikely that it's a theoretical argument. Hopefully that stays true for everyone reading this.
My opinions, YMMV.
The point isn't if the girl has issues....the image is hypothetical.
The point is that kids are supposed to be kids, not deciding life v. death. If the adults put them in that situation then the adults have failed them.
Kids brains don't work the same as adult brains. Something every parent of a teen knows only too well.
For home defense, there are better, newer alternatives to a M1 carbine. But maybe the actual need is so unlikely that it's a theoretical argument. Hopefully that stays true for everyone reading this.
My opinions, YMMV.
so about those feed lips,
ever have an issue?
we know you have a Carbine or 2, you have posted about them here,
and re the M4\M16\AR mags, the HK steel mags that came out, and were supposed to be the bee's knee's when they did, were not only heavier than the Alloy mags they replaced, but also would bend like crazy if they were dropped, ,
My own experience with M1 carbines is going to be definitive? That seems unlikely.
If I say yes I have feeding issues, then the answer will be: go get them fixed, because I don't have them with my setup.
If I say no I don't have feeding issues, then the answer will be: see that proves that carbines are good.
My carbines are collector items, and I don't take them out to play very often. The ones I shoot cycle adequately. Occasional misfeed IIRC but not enough to detract from a range experience.
In 5.56 AR mags, I have some C-products stainless ones that I consider unreliable. The PMAGs work well. Go-to mags would be Okay Industries.
In M1911s some mags work well, others do not. I have WW2 mags that feed more reliably than some of the surplus NOS contract mags that the CMP sold shortly before M1911 sales kicked off.
I have a Yugo M57 (9-round TT) that came with a couple of mags, one of which works well, the other does not.
I've mentioned my dad's old Sport King .22LR that is is effectively a single-shot system because of feed problems.
So to repeat.....not saying a carbine is a BAD HD choice. I am saying....issuing them to teens for home defense speaks to bigger problems, and in my personal opinion there are better choices out there for home defense when it comes to feeding reliability. But as has been said many times and in many places., personal experience and skill with an individual firearm trumps all. People should defend themselves with the weapon with which they have the greatest proficiency, and that proficiency should include clearing stoppages too. If that is a M1 carbine for someone well alright then.
so that is a no?
As stated, occasional misfeeds on collector guns.
Art that image....middle school kids defending their bedroom with a carbine?
I'll say it....bad idea.
First, Lyman, it is an Oleg Volk pic, good catch. You are also correct that his images are intended to be controversial.
The brains of human beings aren't fully developed until the early 20s, according to current orthodoxy. That doesn't mean younger people aren't capable of sometimes making good decisions under duress.
Would have I trusted our daughter to keep a loaded carbine in her bedroom when she was say...14 probably not. Our son....probably yes. Did either actually keep a gun in their bedroom....no. Should children be trained....yes.
A link with numerous cases of the use of firearms to "repel borders" by children. If it doesn't work I'll post some of the individual articles later.
https://www.lawnews.tv/examples-of-kids-using-guns-to-defend-themnselves/
thing about that pic,
did she actually have that carbine stored in her room?
the pic is just a snapshot in time, we cannot see what may or may not have happened 5 minutes , days or seconds before,
bump in the night and she had access to the safe or gunroom? parents our of town or out for the night and the carbine was Dad's (or Mom's ) HD stored in the parents bedroom?
Volk does some good work , makes you think a bit,
I think the last line on the Volk image is the point to me - "Train your child."
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/teenager-opens-fire-on-three-armed-men-after-attempted-burglary-killing-one
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/12-year-old-shoots-intruder-killing-him-during-armed-robbery-at-n-c-apartment-police-say
The site I posted above actually has dozens of these from all sorts of media.
There is a belief on the left that a rape victim is morally superior to an attempted rape victim with a gun and a dead rapist at her feet.
I always felt like the M1 Carbine was a little unreliable in their mil-surp condition. Granted I'm shooting commercial ammunition, which might be weak in comparison to GI surplus?
I never felt the need to reload .30 Carbine...but who doesn't want a few more dies on the reloading bench.
maybe just a bit of a difference in burn rates for the powder?
not sure if the carbine has similar reloading requirements like the Garand, re pressures
I have dies, but have not shot any reloads,,, yet
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