CWD in Idaho

[jon_norstog]

Years ago, 2008 or 9, we were hunting in SE Idaho, along the Centennial Range. Hiked into an area called Barrel Springs and saw a ratty-looking 4-point muley buck just standing there staring at us. We didn't like his looks and we took a pass on him. A ways up the trail we heard a shot, sounded like some kind of magnum, so maybe someone else took that animal. This was when CWD was just starting to get attention.

Now they have a reporting program in place and it seems like CWD has got established in the Elk City Zone. This is just south (but across the Clearwater/Lochsa River from our Lolo Zone (10 and 12 on the map below) and the winter hunt in Dworshak Zone (unit 10a)


50598

Here is ID F&G's plan, FWIW

https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/cwd-strategy-2021.pdf

First, wolves, then this. What will it be next?

jn

[barretcreek]

Woof lovers claim they prey on the infected animals first as easier to take. I'll believe that when I see data.

[togor]

CWD once there, doesn't go away. Shoot the young ones for the freezer.

As for wolves, some people plain dislike the idea of non-human top predators in the ecosystem. It rubs the wrong way at a deep level and nothing will ever change that.

[barretcreek]

As for wolves, some people plain dislike the idea of non-human top predators in the ecosystem. It rubs the wrong way at a deep level and nothing will ever change that.[/QUOTE]

Yes. I am the Apex Predator in my ecosystem. If you aren't in yours, you're the meal.

[togor]

As for wolves, some people plain dislike the idea of non-human top predators in the ecosystem. It rubs the wrong way at a deep level and nothing will ever change that.

Yes. I am the Apex Predator in my ecosystem. If you aren't in yours, you're the meal.[/QUOTE]

The human method, to show up 10 days a year to fill the permit, isn't quite the same.

[togor]

https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recovery/gray-wolf/influence#:~:text=Competition%20and%20prey&text=In%20these%20and%20other%20ways,important%20r ole%20in%20the%20environment.

From Washington State. One point made is the negative effects of overgrazing by herbivores. I'd say especially so in the dry West. Unclear to me if it's reduced total numbers of grazers or if the wolves just keep herds on the move, allowing grazed sections time to recover.

[barretcreek]

Rocky Mountain NP is said to suffer from overgrazing yet the wolf re-intro is far away. Would be a good lab exercise but that's not the agenda.

As far as being the top predator I'm speaking of a broader range of conflicts.

[jon_norstog]

https://wdfw.wa.gov/species-habitats/at-risk/species-recovery/gray-wolf/influence#:~:text=Competition%20and%20prey&text=In%20these%20and%20other%20ways,important%20r ole%20in%20the%20environment.

From Washington State. One point made is the negative effects of overgrazing by herbivores. I'd say especially so in the dry West. Unclear to me if it's reduced total numbers of grazers or if the wolves just keep herds on the move, allowing grazed sections time to recover.

The grasses and the herds of grazing animals co-evolved after the great asteroid wipe-out. Grasslands MUST be grazed or else the grasses choke themselves out and die off. The natural way is with big herds of hooved aNIMALS that move into an area, eat all the grass down, crap all over the place and break up the soil and dead vegetation with their hooves. Then they move on. It's called herd impact, and if you can manage rangeland to mimic it, it will improve the soil and grass, store a kilo of carbon per square meter of ground every year, cut down on runoff and increase ground water percolation and storage. The grass will come back like gangbusters and if you are a rancher, you will have to put more cows on the range. The key is moving the animals, and having a place to move them.

The predators encourage the animals to stay in herds rather than wander off at random, and the6y give them the push they may need to move on. As far as wolves go, the grazing animals need to learn to run in herds again instead of just wandering around, As far as managing the wolves goes, a wildlife biology professor at WSU lost his job fr his research. He demonstrated that6 killing random wolves is counterproductive because it destroys the pack structure and you get a lot of lone wolves with time on their hands. I have seen that around Mex Mtn. There used to be a single active pack with a leader we called "Cujo." After the feds or IF&G killed about 150 wlves in the area, what was left was lone wlves - these are animals who don't have social responsibilities to the pack or answer to an alpha dog. They get bored and kill for the hell of it.

jn

[togor]

In Wisconsin the wolf hunt is political. And you're right--the hunt destroys the pack structure and creates problems as a result.

CWD in Wisconsin is spread by backyard feeders and deer farms. When the disease was first discovered there was some discussion about control measures but in the end, the public, including hunters, didn't want rule changes.

[dryheat]

But what is CWD(mad cow)? It has to do with prions, proteins, and a four year degree in zoology. What I got out of it was, it's not curable and it's always fatal. People can't get it but we have our own version. It is our fault? Climate change? Has it always been here? Is it getting worse? I wouldn't count on wolfs fixing it on their own. So, set aside 100 very healthy deer and kill every other one and start over. We replenished the bison population way back like that and they weren't even sick. The hunters were the problem in that case and we still get to hunt bison today.

[togor]

But what is CWD(mad cow)? It has to do with prions, proteins, and a four year degree in zoology. What I got out of it was, it's not curable and it's always fatal. People can't get it but we have our own version. It is our fault? Climate change? Has it always been here? Is it getting worse? I wouldn't count on wolfs fixing it on their own. So, set aside 100 very healthy deer and kill every other one and start over. We replenished the bison population way back like that and they weren't even sick. The hunters were the problem in that case and we still get to hunt bison today.

For sure ecological balances have seen huge shifts since European settlement overtook North America. If you drive along country roads in Southern Wisconsin this time of year, 95% of the grasses and wildflowers you are seeing are non-native. The honeysuckle and multiflora rose brush that clogs the woodlands isn't either.

[barretcreek]

Alan Savory, a Rhodesian who stayed on with the Zimbabwean gov't developed grazing management programs based on what Jon described. Described in 'The Last Ranch' (not the novel of the same title), author is Bingham.

[lyman]

Chronic Wasting Disease, not mad cow

we have it here in VA but not that bad,
Bro in Law's hunt club gets books full of damage stamps (They can harvest all year) and are expected to send in jaw bones for study, as well as report any sick or suspicious looking (for CWD) animals they see or harvest,

[jon_norstog]

Alan Savory, a Rhodesian who stayed on with the Zimbabwean gov't developed grazing management programs based on what Jon described. Described in 'The Last Ranch' (not the novel of the same title), author is Bingham.

First time I heard of Alan SavoryI was working for CH2M Hill doing land/resource inventory for some ranches that were acquired by the federal Navajo-Hopi Indian Relocation Commission .. that's another story. One of the ranches, the Spurlock, was the first American west cattle ranch to try Savory' system of radial cells fenced off from a central water source. I asked Ted Spurlock how it was working out, he told me "Savory is breaking me! Every time he comes out he tells me to buy more cows, it's not getting grazed down enough. The ranch was around 80K acres IIRC and he was running a thousand cow/calf. That is a lot on the Colorado Plateau. The Spurlock did have a couple strong springs. You should have seen the grass! And the soil was loose, dark and damp under the grass.

Anyway the Relocation Commission brought in BIA range management and they tore the system all out. I don't think they are running even half as much stock on it now and you can see a lot of bald spots.

I have seen this system and it works - you don't need elaborate fencing like on the Spurlock Ranch, you just need to be able to move the livestock around fast, with fences, cowboys, or by turning the water on and off different places. Get a system set up and always have a few old cows in the herd who know the ropes and can lead the rest of the herd.

The world's soils are carbon-depleted. If the developed countries started paying for range management and ag practices that put carbon back in the soil, we'd have more food for everyone, a lot of countries would have paid work for young people who might otherwise fly airplanes into big buildings, plus we could give ourselves a little more time to deal with CO2 emissions.

jn

[togor]

In Amazonia, traditional agriculture used a slash-and-char method to create these carbon-rich islands in the otherwise poor soils there, and on those islands grow incredible amounts of food. Mechanized agriculture is labor efficient but does deplete the soil. There will come a day when Norman Borlaug is no longer seen as some kind of hero.

[jon_norstog]

In Amazonia, traditional agriculture used a slash-and-char method to create these carbon-rich islands in the otherwise poor soils there, and on those islands grow incredible amounts of food. Mechanized agriculture is labor efficient but does deplete the soil. There will come a day when Norman Borlaug is no longer seen as some kind of hero.

Togor, here is some reading for you.

Posey, D. A., & Balee, W. L. (Eds.). (1989). Resource Management in Amazonia: Indigenous and Folk Strategies. (Advances in Economic Botany, 7). New York: New York Botanical Garden Press. ISBN 978-0-89327-340-8 ; ISBN 0-89327-340-6

jn