Foragers that went to Alaska

[Openirons]

Hi Folks,
I know it's said (e.g. in Flayderman's, p. 585) that the last known issuance of the Springfield 1881 foragers went to Alaska in 1906.
Is there any record of which serial numbers were issued in Alaska?

[Tom Trevor]

If its not listed in the SRS books chances are it will not be found. All the shotguns listed were sent to lower 48 units.

[Openirons]

Thanks Tom, that's good to know, albeit disappointing. If I gave you a SN, would you be able to check it out for me? Not sure on protocol for SRS lookups on the forum.

[Dick Hosmer]

A friend of mine and I are compiling a list of surviving Foragers. We now have nearly 150 numbers, from 11 to 1392, a tad over 10%. Anyone who wants to post their number - and any info they have on it - is welcome to do so. The numbers (only) will be published in the next printing of my .45-70 book, hopefully next Spring/Summer. Maybe I have something on YOUR specimen?

[Openirons]

Wow, that's great! Excited to hear more about the project! As soon as you're ready, I'll be buying a copy. Mine is SN 1348 and I'd be happy to provide any details/photos though it's been through the auction houses over the years and photographs are up on their sites still. If you know anything from SRS data, I'd sure appreciate hearing about it.

[Dick Hosmer]

That is a new number to us - thank you. I originally did not plan to include numbers in the Forager chapter, since they have their own unique series, and "are what they are", as opposed to those scarce or rare items occurring in the general sequence where the establishment of a range is of significant value. But, as we accumulated numbers I thought why not? People like to see "their" gun in a book, and, the listing helps to roughly indicate survival rate. Aside from Flayderman's comment, I have not seen anything specific re Alaska, but, I've not actually searched for it either. I'm sure he wasn't making it up, so some sort of record exists (or existed) but it may or may not have included numbers.

[Openirons]

Re: Alaska records, I guess I'm physically in one of the better places to do that on-the-ground research, so I'll poke around with some locals. Good winter project. Who knows if the base here would have records like that going back so far, but possibly, or possibly they'd know where else to look.

Sounds like the book project is a new edition to "the Scarce & the Rare" - any plans for a new edition of the ".58 & .50's" book? I've been keeping a list of known serial numbers for the type II 1870 Springfield-Sharps, and it stands at 39 right now (so just over 10% as well). Happy to share if it would ever help.

[Dick Hosmer]

I think the only record(s) extant might be in the RCOs (Annual Reports of the Chief of Ordnance). I have a few but not for that period. I think most can be read online,

"Scarce" just needs a reorganization and update - file has gotten messy (floating pictures!) with the little tweaks here and there. I do not sell many directly, so just let Amazon send out what they have, but I need to get my house in order and keep the master m/s file usable, which it is not at present.

"58/50" is a little different, it was printed conventionally and I have all of the stock, still over 1000 of the original 5000. Poyer/North Cape did the editing and publishing. I did obtain Joe's material before he passed, and have converted the text to Pages on my Mac. But, there is a size/font change coming as I want to redo it IDENTICAL to "Scarce". With the help of Fred Gaarde, and my acquisition of #62, there will be a lot more coverage on the 68/68s, plus 20 years of gleanings. It will be a true 2nd Edition.

Another, and pretty unlikely item at this point would be a third volume to round out the period, on the "standard" .45 rifles and carbines, but, that ground has been plowed (too?) many times.

Yes, I'd gladly accept your offer of the S/S serials, again something I hadn't considered (from lack of data, as well as the unique sequence thing). I see you are a new member - we should probably talk more - preferably email, I hate the in-house message system here.

[Openirons]

Sent an email your way via the system with my own email address enclosed. If that doesn't make it through, I can message it to you as well.

[Fred]

Dick, don’t forget about Forager #9 that I used to have and which is now owned by another person who’s name I cannot remember.
I do recall that it has the early lock plate with the 1873 date, a serrated trigger, an early hammer with the cut knurling,
the new owner has all of the information I gave him concerning the name of the ancestor of the man from whom I bought it and the name of the South Dakota fort that he served at.
possibly the man will see this post and will kindly chime in with this information that I can no longer remember.

[Fred]

Dick, don’t forget about Forager #9 that I used to have and which is now owned by another person who’s name I cannot remember.
I do recall that it has the early lock plate with the 1873 date, a serrated trigger, an early hammer with the cut knurling,
the new owner has all of the information I gave him concerning the name of the ancestor of the man from whom I bought it and the name of the South Dakota fort that he served at.
possibly the man will see this post and will kindly chime in with this information that I can no longer remember.
I have photos of it but I can’t seem to post them here.

[Fred]

Ok, I?ve managed to email the photos to you Dick.

[Dick Hosmer]

Thanks - was out of town for the holiday. I seem to have two Forager s/n lists going - need to combine/correct them - I was aware of 9.

[Openirons]

Trying to post again, apologies if this ends up a duplicate.

I did find out more about the Alaska connection. In a book entitled Trapdoor Springfield: The United States Springfield Single-Shot Rifle, 1865-1893 by Waite & Ernst from 1980, two general orders from 1904 are cited, 37 and 46. GO #37 was issued in February of that year and ordered that all companies must turn in their shotguns to Springfield Armory or Rock Island Arsenal. GO #146 (it was a typo in the book) was issued the following September and made an exception for Alaska.

GO 146 stated that, "Shotguns will be issued only to troops stationed in Alaska, for hunting purposes. The annual allowance of ammunition will be 1,000 loaded cartridges per company or troop."

Waite & Ernst suspected this added several years to the service life of the Model 1881, though for general use the gun was recalled in 1904. It's also a little interesting that there's a 1000 loaded cartridge allowance, which seems to bypass the reloading that was expected in 1883.

Still, Flayderman's statement that the last issuance was in Alaska in 1906 is pretty damn specific and would seem to have relied on something more than these two general orders. So, my hunt continues.

If anyone likes reading, I wrote an article on the Forager on my blog in November and have updated it with some of this additional information along with an attempt to evaluate production numbers by year. https://www.openirons.com/2022/11/30/springfield-armory-made-a-trapdoor-shotgun/. Any feedback/corrections are welcome. It is a long form read so bring coffee.

BTW, Dick, per earlier discussion I had attempted to email and DM you via the tools on this site, not sure if any of that got through, but if still interested maybe we can figure out a better communication method. If on Twitter, my username is the same and I can be DM'd there.

[cowtownscout]

Hi Dick
Just seeing this thread. I acquired an 1881 Forager in 2022 and the serial number is 995.
Scout

[Dick Hosmer]

That's a new number. Any details available, like cartouche date? Thanks!

[cowtownscout]

Sent you an email through the forum. If you will reply to give me your email address I can take some photos and send them to you.

[Dick Hosmer]

richardahosmer comcast dot net at

[cowtownscout]

Dick
Just sent you an email with 29 photos. Cartouche appears to be 1885 to me.
Scout

[Dick Hosmer]

Got 'em - thanks!

[Kragrifle]

Hi Dick
I?m still working on the book project we discussed several years ago. Could you give me some advice on your photographic technique?

[Dick Hosmer]

What camera will you be using? What program to edit with. I'm a Mac guy - know nothing about Photoshop beyond the fact that it will do almost anything artsy, but is expensive and has a steep learning curve. Used my old 10mp Olympus for both ".58/.50" and "More". Poyer pissed and moaned about the former and diddled with them extensively. I used them (as lightly edited with a simple Mac program called "Preview") for "More", which - IMHO - came out a LOT better. Could also have had something to do with conventional printing vs. the electronic copying of PDF files.

For my American Flyer train book, which is all in color, I used my Iphone8, which worked just fine. You've seen Ed Hull's beautiful photo work in MAA? Same iPhone as mine! My point being that you do NOT need fancy stuff to get decent results.

Overall shots are the trickiest. I suspended my rifles about 18" in front of an independently-lit white background using monofilament fishing line. This avoids shadows, but the lighting must be ample and uniform. I worked indoors, for various reasons, but outdoor lighting is better, though shadows must be avoided, so a bright but overcast day is needed. Problem for me because I have a lot of trees in the private area (required) to do the work.

For other shots, I constructed a "fixture" (photos to follow) which holds the gun by gravity and friction in nearly any position. Remember that you can take a picture with the gun upside-down and/or backwards - which can instantly be corrected with your software. In other words, the gun does NOT have to be photographed in the orientation in which you wish to present the picture.

There's more, of course - we should use email or 'phone.

[Kragrifle]

Thanks Dick
Still working so didn?t see your reply till now. I bought a nice Nikon and expensive macro lens only to come to realize the IPhone is easier and better. So will use mine and should be able to use one of the plug in devices to store photos, I will be scaling back on my office practice over the coming years and spend more time on books on the 1922 series of 22 cal Springfield rifles and the Lee Navy. Fingers crossed. Still have not found any interested publishers so will try to figure out Amazon.