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View Full Version : Why I Prefer the No 4 Lee Enfield Over Mauser Rifles



Art
01-09-2023, 03:14
......as a battle rifle.

I made a post on the M1903 page to the effect that I believe the M1903A13 rifle is the finest example of the Mauser family. This is due to its weight, mine weighs in at 8.8 pounds unloaded with a sling and butt stock cleaning kit. My M1903 is exactly a pound heavier similarly fitted out and most Mausers short rifles come in also at about 10 pounds. The '03A3 has superior sights to other Mauser type rifles and a frankly smoother action than most. They are all fine rifles.

The Lee system does have its faults, the biggest being the rimmed ammunition. While problems with the ammo is largely fixed by the magazine design and properly loading the clips rim lock can happen and is a maddingly difficult stoppage to clear. There is also the problem of weak ejection caused by the lack of a proper ejector, the empties being kicked out by the charger loading thumb groove which requires, also, a strong extractor spring. None of these issues exist with Mauser rifles.

So why the Lee??

Large magazine capacity aided by very smooth bolt operation and a bolt handle that actually lies behind the trigger which results in a high rate of fire in the hands of a trained rifleman has always been its biggest selling point but there are others. For one the rifle is very, very simple mechanically and easy to maintain. The locking lug recesses on front locking bolts are dirt traps and the Lee does not suffer from this problem. Take the bolt out and you're looking right at the breach face where cleaning requires nothing more than a wipe off. The sight on the Lee, is, for me anyway, superior to those on the '03A3. While the sight isn't adjustable for deflection I haven't found this to be a problem, at least out to 300 yards. I like the big "ghost ring" battle sight which with me shooting it hits dead on at 200 yards with mil spec ammo. Lees have a very practical battle sight. In addition the ladder sigh part of the set up is very good "fine sighting" option out to any practical range.

The Lee's have, what I believe, is, an undeserved reputation for sub par accuracy. I'm not surprised with the number of worn out barrels out there and the amount of badly stored garbage milsurp ammo floating around (POF, WWII Brit.) In the case of my No 4Mk2 which I got new in the mummy wrap ragged out rifle problems don't exist. It's capable of telling accuracy at any range I shoot. I will confess that with ammo of equal quality My '03A3 performs a bit better but not by a whole lot. I think this is due in no small part to the '03A3s better trigger.

Now a disclaimer. I'm speaking only of the virtues of this weapon as a battle rifle, not a match rifle or a hunting rifle. For either of those functions my first choice in an action/rifle would not be the Lee though I've certainly had no problems taking deer with a Lee action rifle.

lyman
01-09-2023, 04:29
hoping Blitzkreig pops buy ( I may send him a note) and tells us of his glorious accuracy at 1000,

no, I did not add an extra zero, and yes, he shoots No 4's at that distance,


Enfield related, I added a No 5 to my meager collection today,
unusual in that it was scrubbed and apparently rebuild in India,

lyman
01-09-2023, 04:43
https://www.gunboards.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=192 0,fit=scale-down/https://www.gunboards.com/attachments/pxl_20221107_203318375-jpg.4036829/

Vern Humphrey
01-10-2023, 12:04
How do you like the recoil on that sucker?:)

lyman
01-10-2023, 04:27
How do you like the recoil on that sucker?:)

not shot it yet

Vern Humphrey
01-10-2023, 04:34
not shot it yet

It's supposed to kick like a mule -- that "recoil pad" is hard and small.

lyman
01-10-2023, 08:34
It's supposed to kick like a mule -- that "recoil pad" is hard and small.

shot one years ago when I was in college, kicked a bit,

when I shoot Enfield's, it is generally a No 4, but that is unfortunately not often,

terrylee
01-10-2023, 11:58
Art, well said!

Vern Humphrey
01-11-2023, 07:53
shot one years ago when I was in college, kicked a bit,

when I shoot Enfield's, it is generally a No 4, but that is unfortunately not often,

The full-size Lee Enfields are fairly soft-shooting -- Not like the '03 Springfield, with it's more powerful cartridge and short stock. Elmer Keith claimed to have broken his nose when his thumb hit it in recoil.

lyman
01-11-2023, 09:04
The full-size Lee Enfields are fairly soft-shooting -- Not like the '03 Springfield, with it's more powerful cartridge and short stock. Elmer Keith claimed to have broken his nose when his thumb hit it in recoil.

I learned quickly to move my thumb when shooting the 1903 in competition,

never broke my nose, but it was uncomfortable,

03's are damn good shooters, very accurate

Art
01-11-2023, 09:21
'03s with the "S" stock are hard kickers. My old daddy who shot them some in training with the SeaBees said the '03s recoil was stout and in the prone position brutal. An '03A1 isn't so bad thanks to the "C" stock. I have also found full size Lee Enfields to be easier on you due partly to the somewhat less powerful cartridge, a comfortable butt plate and a good stock design.

You are correct, Lyman, I shoot my '03A3 better than any of my other milsurps (my Garand is a close second followed by my No4 Mk2 Lee Enfield,) The 03A3 is mechanically very accurate, has excellent sights and a good trigger.

Vern Humphrey
01-13-2023, 04:41
I learned quickly to move my thumb when shooting the 1903 in competition,

never broke my nose, but it was uncomfortable,

03's are damn good shooters, very accurate

And the '03A3 is just as good as the basic '03, with more practical sights.

bruce
01-13-2023, 06:18
Have been shooting 03-A3 and later 03 rifles since 1979. Wonderful rifles. In good condition, gun for gun, they will shoot rings around most every other common surplus military rifle ever fielded. This is especially true of the 03-A3. Just about an ideal product improvement on the 03. Very much like the K-98's and the M-17's. Have owned and shot various Enfields. Imagine most of them would have fared better w/ less barrel damage had the ammo been loaded with a better propellant. Still, none of these rifles were intended for fine accuracy but rather effectiveness in the field against infantry, etc. For this purpose even the Italian rifles were effective. Nowadays, I still enjoy my 03 rifles both of which rearsenaled during WWII. My 03-A3's are my favorites for just about everything. Especially like the S stock as it allows me to fire from the right side but use my left eye for aiming. I find it to be an excellent solution for my having only the use of my left eye. Sincerely. bruce.

Vern Humphrey
01-14-2023, 07:24
Have been shooting 03-A3 and later 03 rifles since 1979. Wonderful rifles. In good condition, gun for gun, they will shoot rings around most every other common surplus military rifle ever fielded. This is especially true of the 03-A3. Just about an ideal product improvement on the 03. Very much like the K-98's and the M-17's. Have owned and shot various Enfields. Imagine most of them would have fared better w/ less barrel damage had the ammo been loaded with a better propellant. Still, none of these rifles were intended for fine accuracy but rather effectiveness in the field against infantry, etc. For this purpose even the Italian rifles were effective. Nowadays, I still enjoy my 03 rifles both of which rearsenaled during WWII. My 03-A3's are my favorites for just about everything. Especially like the S stock as it allows me to fire from the right side but use my left eye for aiming. I find it to be an excellent solution for my having only the use of my left eye. Sincerely. bruce.

I have a Remington with the S stock and a Smith-Corona with the scant stock. I understand the scant stock -- best they could do at the time, with type S blanks and a type C master in the profile lathe. And it does help return the shooting hand to the correct position. But the S stock is just cooler.:icon_wink:

JimF
01-15-2023, 07:47
. . . . . .And it does help return the shooting hand to the correct position. . . . . .

The biggest ?plus? of the scant stock is its? higher and more parallel line to the bore, than the ?S? stock. Almost as good as a ?C? stock!

Makes for a much better stock in ALL positions. (Even offhand when about half the buttplate is exposed above the shoulder. As viewed from the rear.)

The old, crooked, ?S? stock is only OK for offhand (stand up like a man) shooting.

AGAIN!!! Query marks instead of apostrophes and quotation marks!!

WHEN WILL THIS BE FIXED???

Vern Humphrey
01-15-2023, 08:15
The biggest ?plus? of the scant stock is its? higher and more parallel line to the bore, than the ?S? stock. Almost as good as a ?C? stock!


That shouldn't be surprising -- the Scant Stock is the same as the C Stock. It was made by using S Stock blanks cut on a profile lathe with the C Stock master.