View Full Version : Question: Having never been inside a Tank, I wouldn't know ...
Are there written instructions for which button to push, which lever to pull ?
If so, presumably they'll be in various languages - another problem.
There is a similar story from WWI.
A Brit shipyard was building a battleship for Brazil in the decade before WWI. It was an interesting ship. It was to be the longest ship afloat with the largest number of main battery guns of any battleship (14 12" in 7 double centerline turrets,) the largest secondary battery of any battlewagon afloat, and an impressive top speed for a battleship at the time of a bit over 23 knots. Before it was finished the Brazilians began to have doubts about paying for it and the Turks agreed to buy it. As impressive as it was on paper it also had may flaws; the main one being inadequate protection. As it was being finished up in the fall of 1914 the Brits cast covetous eyes on the ship and confiscated it while its Turkish crew was waiting to take delivery.
The newly christened British HMS Agincourt had all of its instruments and gauges and instructions in Turkish, Everybody from the captain to the stokers had to learn how to sight read the Turkish writing on the instruments and controls on the ship....which they did.
The ship, Turkish writing and all, fought at Jutland at the end of the line, probably due to her perceived fragility. During the brief time she was engaged she took the opportunity to fire full broadsides from her main armament and scored some hits. An officer on her next ahead commenting on the simultaneous discharge of these fourteen pieces of heavy ordnance, said it looked like the ship had blown up with every salvo...."it was awe inspiring."
In a pinch you do what you have to do, but it helps that an awful lot of Ukrainians speak English (it is estimated that at least 50% have a working knowledge or better) and there is a substantial number that speak German.
The simple fact is, every tank they're getting, even "monkey" modeled up, is better than anything they'll face from the Rooskies.
The simple fact is, every tank they're getting, even "monkey" modeled up, is better than anything they'll face from the Rooskies.
This is really upsetting Putin.
blackhawknj
01-29-2023, 07:47
Given the high rate of illiteracy in Turkey in 1914, I wonder how many of the Turkish crews could read the gauges, etc.
Given the closeness of the Ukrainian and Russian languages-and Russian was the second language in the republics of the USSR-the Ukrainians need to start salvaging Russian equipment.
It is called training. In the rear cockpit of a USN F-4 Phantom there was a panel that had over a 100 circuit breakers, many of which could not be seen but could be felt with gloved hand. In a pinch it was important to know that a failure of a instrument or device was because of a popped breaker or actual damage and the GIB (Guy In Backseat) had to memorize the panel.
I was in the backseat with Jack Lovell (the Astronauts first cousin) when we fired a Sparrow missile at a drone. It malfunctioned and rolled out under the starboard wing taking a Sidewinder and its pylon with it. There was a basketball sized hole left in the wing. We lost 2 of 3 hydraulic systems and had holes in our stabilators and rudder. Resetting some breakers and pulling some others helped.
We managed to land safely but the aircraft was totaled.
In the rear cockpit of a USN F-4 Phantom there was a panel that had over a 100 circuit breakers, many of which could not be seen but could be felt with gloved hand.
I figured there wasn't much in the rear cockpit of an F-4. My brother was given a ride in one for finishing top of the class in one of the schools he took while in the Air Force. He was never a pilot, took no training on being one either but was given the ride. I'm sure he was instructed to not touch anything. He took some pictures while taking the flight.
Regular folks get to ride in the backseat. I rode in an A-4 Skyhawk twice. The pilot was my neighbor. He told me if we hadn't been in a formation he would have let me take the yoke. Wow, I don't know how that would have worked out. I'm sure he would have been on top of it. It was still and E ride. I passed out a little on the bomb run(just smoke) and the pull up(didn't have my helmet in the groove or whatever you call it).
The training must be good. There's a million flights a day and hardly any of them crash.
blackhawknj
01-30-2023, 01:26
Yes, putting an untrained soldier in a tank-or behind any other piece of equipment....
Given the high rate of illiteracy in Turkey in 1914, I wonder how many of the Turkish crews could read the gauges, etc.
Given the closeness of the Ukrainian and Russian languages-and Russian was the second language in the republics of the USSR-the Ukrainians need to start salvaging Russian equipment.
I'm pretty sure that the Turkish navy had a higher literacy rate than the army, reading and writing being a necessary skill for almost all naval personnel.
Interestingly the sale of the Agincourt falling through was one of the things that led to Turkey joining the war on the side of the Germans. The Germans had a battle cruiser (SMS Goben) and a light cruiser in the Med. Goben (22,000 tons, 28 knots 10 11" guns) was a powerful ship. The Goben had no hope of escaping the Med. so the Germans "donated" her, and the cruiser to the Turks along with their crews. She served the whole war in the Eastern Med. and Black sea and was heavily engaged throughout the war. After the war the Turks kept her, and rebuilt the ship in the early 1930s. Always immaculate, and the pride of the service she remained active with them until about 1954!!! The ship was then reduced to reserve, the Turks offered her to the German government as a museum ship but the Germans declined and the old Goben/Yavuz Selim was scrapped in 1963, making her the longest serving dreadnought in history.
blackhawknj
01-30-2023, 10:29
Tank training involves a lot more than trying to read switches, panels. One book I read about the M-4 Sherman, during the troop replacement crisis in the late summer/early autumn 1944, told how some rear echelon brain managed to cobble together 2 companies of Shermans-they lasted about one day in combat.
In Castles of Steel Robert Massie writes "At about this time-[August 16, the day the ships were formally handed over to Turkey]-the pro-Allied Turkish minister of finance met a distinguished Belgian to inform him sadly that the Germans had captured Brussels. The Belgian pointed to Goeben lying at anchor off the Golden Horn and said: "I have even more terrible news for you. The Germans have captured Turkey."
The Goeben and Breslau escaped the British forces thanks to the incompetence of the British commander in the Mediterranean, Sir Archibald Berkley-Milne. He is best remembered for his quote "They pay me to be an admiral. They don't pay me to think."
blackhawknj
I would assume that the best available crews will go into these new western tanks. You know what they say about assumptions though.
Shermans earned the unfortunate sobriquet "Ronsons"
Ronsons. Liquid fuel. Didn't they do flint too? I remember those boat looking lighters.
blackhawknj
01-31-2023, 04:38
When the specifications for the Sherman were laid down in 1940, speed and cross country performance were more important than armor, the idea being that tanks were for deep penetration operations against soft targets, not tank to tank combat. Our doctrine was that tanks were to be fought by tank destroyer battalions. Infantry units had the various towed anti-tank guns, they were usually found to be too slow to get into action. In the movie Patton Bradley (Karl Malden) tells Patton (George C. Scott) "The men call them 'Purple Heart boxes"-one piece of hot shrapnel and the gasoline explodes."
Ronsons. Liquid fuel. Didn't they do flint too? I remember those boat looking lighters.
They made a cute lighter in the shape of a Tank.. My family had one.
At least I assume it was a Ronson.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.