View Full Version : I might have found a pretty nice one
Gents,
I picked up a pretty nice 1903 Springfield Armory this week at my LGS. SN is 3840XX, SA bbl dated 12-09, J.F.C. cartouche, faint but there circle serif P behind trigger guard. All I see looks right and original. I'm going to attempt to post some photos. Let me know what you think. I'm in the rifle right, so if it isn't all original, I'm still golden.
Thanks!
Steve5162451625516265162751628
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Pete Davis
02-25-2023, 04:22
Looks awesome. I see a replacement windage knob.
PD
John Beard
02-25-2023, 05:19
You have a nice rifle. Like Pete, I notice a few replacement parts. In addition to the windage knob, the lower band, the trigger, and the buttplate appear to be replacements from later rifles. Nevertheless, you did well.
Thanks for sharing!
J.B.
John, so good to hear from you Sir! Thank you for your input on this rifle. I'm in it for ~650 clams so I feel great about it even with the couple replacement parts. It's still the closest thing to correct I've ever owned. Can you tell me what windage knob, lower band, trigger, and buttplate would be correct? I think the butt should be smooth, right? the other parts I have no idea on...
Steve
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Thank you Pete! I thought you would like to see this one... :)
Steve
Buttplates:
http://www.vishooter.net/m1903/buttplates.jpg
John Beard
02-26-2023, 08:48
The buttplate should be smooth, the trigger should be thin, smooth, and pointed, the lower band should be marked with a serifed "U", and the windage knob should be dished and grooved like the slide binding screw.
J.B.
Pete Davis
02-27-2023, 04:10
Is there any chance that he handguard on this rifle started out as a flat top, and had the clearance groove added? Did this ever get done?
PD
Thanks Merc and John. Last question for John - are these replacements likely field (unit armorer or "direct support" as it was known in my day) or are they indicative of arsenal rebuild (given the lack of any rebuild stamp)? I'm particularly curious about that because I was a Small Arms Repairman, direct support level when I was in the Army.
John - just a reminder, you helped me out a LOT back when I first joined Jouster and started collecting US Martial Arms more seriously. That's been nearly 20 years ago. I have appreciated your input and knowledge, not to mention your willingness to share, immensely through the years!
Steve
Is a Small Arms Repairman similar to, or equal to a Gunsmith? What were the small arms that you repaired?
Merc, I worked on everything from the M1911A1 up to the 4.2" mortar at the Direct Support Level (Brigade level maintenance). Mostly, we replaced parts so more of a gun plumber than a gunsmith. 45B20 was my MOS designator when I got out.
Steve
That is a really interesting job. You should have no trouble stripping and cleaning your old milsurp relics. So, which firearm was your favorite?
I took the Liberty to look up your MOS and it is impressive. I hope you were able to build upon the skills that you learned in the Army in civilian life.
https://www.armystudyguide.com/content/Prep_For_Basic_Training/army_mos_information/small-armsartillery-repai.shtml
Merc,
I absolutely loved the job. My favorite to work on (and test fire after working on them in the field) was Ma Deuce. I even had an opportunity to do some limited work on the XM21 sniper rifle and fire them with some guys from 1/36 Infantry while I was in Germany. I've extended my Army professional life to enjoying/working on/restoring milsurps since I've been out. Learned a great deal from John Beard, Pete Davis, and several more about "correct" US martial arms in that time. I sold most of my WWII collection some years ago, I concentrated on American, German, and Japanese weapons from that war. After much discussion with my two sons, their interest was less than zero for WWII arms and accoutrements so I sold the whole lot at auction. But I was never able to give up my passion for that stuff, American and German small arms in particular, so now any time I find a bargain, I jump on it and enjoy working on it!
Steve
The Ma Deuce has been in continuous service for 90 years. Had to be a blast to shoot it - pun intended.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning
My Winchester M1917 has a low serial number and was not sent to France due to parts interchangeability issues with M1917s made by Eddystone and Remington. I suspect my ‘17 may have been stripped of some of its parts in order to keep other front line rifles functioning. The barrel bore and receiver are excellent but I found several trigger parts that were bent, worn or damaged. NOS Winchester replacement parts were easy to find on eBay or from on-line parts dealers. I really did enjoy restoring the M1917 and seeing how well it performed afterward.
Pete Davis
02-28-2023, 01:41
Steve
That's pretty impressive.
Pete Davis
John Beard
02-28-2023, 09:18
Thanks Merc and John. Last question for John - are these replacements likely field (unit armorer or "direct support" as it was known in my day) or are they indicative of arsenal rebuild (given the lack of any rebuild stamp)? I'm particularly curious about that because I was a Small Arms Repairman, direct support level when I was in the Army.
John - just a reminder, you helped me out a LOT back when I first joined Jouster and started collecting US Martial Arms more seriously. That's been nearly 20 years ago. I have appreciated your input and knowledge, not to mention your willingness to share, immensely through the years!
Steve
I see no significant evidence indicating that the rifle was arsenal-overhauled. I foresee two reasonable explanations for the replacement parts. (1) The company armorer replaced the parts at the request of and as a favor to whom the rifle was issued. (2) The rifle was stripped and cleaned as part of a large batch of rifles, then re-assembled from mixed parts.
And you're very welcome for the assistance in the past! I'm glad I could help.
J.B.
John Beard
02-28-2023, 09:29
Is there any chance that the handguard on this rifle started out as a flat top, and had the clearance groove added? Did this ever get done?
PD
A document from the Chief of Army Ordnance found in the National Archives dated 10 August 1909 ordered Springfield Armory to implement a sight-line clearance groove in the handguard. SteveC's rifle was assembled during the tooling and transition period and could have been correctly fitted with either handguard.
And to answer your question, old parts were updated to the latest designs when the rifles came through for arsenal overhaul. But SteveC's rifle shows no sign of overhaul.
J.B.
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Started taking this one apart for a thorough cleaning and darn! Ol' Willy loaded her up with cosmoline! On the plus side, this just means I'll have more days to clean her up a little bit at a time...
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I've almost finished cleaning the rifle up and remembered I didn't share that the (empty and missing oil cap) cleaning kit was still in the buttstock.
I can't tell from the pictures if the hand guard has reinforcing clips or not, but if there is an s stamped to the rear of the sight line cut and just to the left of the windage knob cut that would indicate that it was shortened from the 1905 pattern and was indeed originally a flat top hand guard.
J.J.
I checked last night, no "S" stamped in the handguard. Thanks for your input J.J.!
Steve
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