View Full Version : Titanic mission
5thDragoons
06-20-2023, 06:17
Still no sign of the sub and not a lot of air left. That can't be a good feeling! SW
Still no sign of the sub and not a lot of air left. That can't be a good feeling! SW
Assuming there wasn't a catastrophic failure of the pressure hull, in which case they're all already dead, the best scenario is they-re bobbing around on the surface somewhere and unable to communicate. If they're stuck on the bottom, and they find them, they are still in deep, deep trouble. No rescue has been made below 1,500 feet and they're about 10,000 feet deeper.
High rent adventuring that involves stuff like deep water submersibles or rocket ships is extremely dangerous by definition. People doing this should be warned that in the event of a problem there is a good chance of not surviving the trip. You truly pay your money and take your chances.
read the same and saw a short vid saying similar to what Art mentioned,
they are crushed, from a failure in the hull, or maybe bobbing around on the surface waiting to be found,
vid said there were several redundancies ,
regardless, they cannot open or vent from the inside, so they may be on the surface and still suffocate,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsGc_JPLzA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsGc_JPLzA4
I think a lot of people would agree with me. I truly hope somehow these folks are alive and can be rescued but also that this ends the entertainment attraction to visit the Titanic. Finding the ship, taking pictures, and seeing that it broke up before sinking is all fine and good---a lot of questions answered there but I wish the location had never been revealed. It should be considered an unfortunate grave site and left alone.
Good post. Agree 100%
Some people find pleasure in living on the edge. No one questions the motives of adventurers who choose to attempt to climb Mt. Everest, yet its slopes are littered with the bodies of those who failed to survive the climb. They were left where they fell and are not considered recoverable.
Major Tom
06-22-2023, 05:50
As I post this (7:45 am June 22), the air in the submersible has run out! Experts say now there is no hope for survivers! It is now a search for the sub!
Old news now but a debris field was found this morning near the Titanic. So, everyone no doubt died instantly as soon as contact was lost.
What could have gone wrong in a plastic tube with 6500psi of water surrounding you?
Though the Titanic is in international waters the U.S., Canada, UK, France and all others that helped in the search and have rescue vessels should announce "no more sight seeing trips".
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12223805/Debris-field-discovered-search-area-near-Titanic.html
Plastic has definite limits. I hope no one has to discover this again with production of the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 plastic planes.
Old news now but a debris field was found this morning near the Titanic. So, everyone no doubt died instantly as soon as contact was lost.
What could have gone wrong in a plastic tube with 6500psi of water surrounding you?
Though the Titanic is in international waters the U.S., Canada, UK, France and all others that helped in the search and have rescue vessels should announce "no more sight seeing trips".
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12223805/Debris-field-discovered-search-area-near-Titanic.html
Plastic has definite limits. I hope no one has to discover this again with production of the Boeing 787 and Airbus A350 plastic planes.
I have heard these folks talked about as "explorers" and a couple of the people on board were that but the rest were "adventure tourists" and very high rent adventure tourists indeed. We're lucky there aren't more dead folks down there. They talked to one old boy who went down on a Russian MIR submersiable which is an actual military vehicle good to 20,000 feet and is much more robust and capable than the commercial deep sea tourist mobile these folks died on. Anyway he said a current caught them and slammed them into the Titanic's screws and they caught between the props and the hull with chunks of rusty steel raining down on them. He said only the cool head of "Victor" the Rooskie driving the MIR who was a former MiG pilot kept them from being dead down there as well.
Tourist rocketry and deep submersible diving is incredibly dangerous. No child should ever be allowed on one of these trips but not only was a kid on this one, he wasn't the first but hopefully will be the last. To the companies credit I do understand they told the clients that this trip could be your last trip and you need to know that going in. To the companies discredit they apparently waited hours before calling the cavalry. It wouldn't have made any difference but something besides corporate damage control should be on one's mind at a time like that.
And, Allen, you're right, the wreck ought to be designated a grave site and all tourist or commercial exploitation stopped.
5thDragoons
06-22-2023, 02:17
Years from now the same thing will happen with people paying way too much money to walk on the moon - or other space adventure. SW
I can't watch free style rock climbing and climbing Everest just seems crazy.
You don't "Climb" Everest any more - you just walk up the steps holding onto the rope.
Johnny P
06-22-2023, 06:10
Heard this on the news, and found this.
"Former passenger on Titan submersible says you have to sign a waiver that mentions death 3 times on the first page: 'So it's never far from your mind'
Johnny P
06-22-2023, 06:20
If you die on Everest you become you become a roadside attraction.
"Green Boots" isn't taking a nap.
https://i.postimg.cc/L55x54PQ/Green-Boots.jpg[/url]
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Heard this on the news, and found this.
"Former passenger on Titan submersible says you have to sign a waiver that mentions death 3 times on the first page: 'So it's never far from your mind'
Yes, this was not just a reminder but a release from being sued if something did happen. Still, the company owners can be sued/fined/arrested/whatever due to being warned by many that this vessel was not safe enough to withstand the pressures and make this kind of trip.
Some who took a trip before commented that they feared they would make it out alive. The only controls on the sub was an "off the shelf" then modified Logitech game controller. The pilot received text messages from above water level and steered accordingly---read it many times and still don't understand much of it.
One previous employee was fired when he spoke of his concerns of safety. Not of the nature of the trip but that of the sub structure/design.
Long story short: it wasn't built like the Russian MIR and came no where close.
Kind of ironic. "Unsinkable ships" that are pretty fragile it turns out.
Major Tom
06-23-2023, 03:53
The sub imploded during descent. Debris field was 1600 feet from Titanic's bow. Recovery of bodies is not possible.
Johnny P
06-23-2023, 06:07
Depending on the depth that the implosion occurred, there may not be any bodies to recover. If at a great enough depth where the implosion had a dieseling effect, there may not be any remains.
There certainly won't be any whole bodies.
Spending millions to try to save human lives was one thing and not an issue. I know the families of the deceased think differently but the few remains/fragments that could be retrieved now wouldn't be worth the cost , effort and risk.
These people loved the Titanic. They are a part of it now.
Time to pack up and leave.
There certainly won't be any whole bodies.
Spending millions to try to save human lives was one thing and not an issue. I know the families of the deceased think differently but the few remains/fragments that could be retrieved now wouldn't be worth the cost , effort and risk.
These people loved the Titanic. They are a part of it now.
Time to pack up and leave.
You are correct on all points Allen. Have a service and drop some wreaths in the water at the site. That would be my wish.
I learned that the son of the Pakistani tourist on the trip was older than I thought at 19. I also learned he was apprehensive about the whole thing and didn't want to take the trip but was under a lot of pressure from his dad and an aunt to go. I find that part especially sad.
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The sub imploded during descent. Debris field was 1600 feet from Titanic's bow. Recovery of bodies is not possible.
.....and the people on the surface heard it break up when it happen on their listening gear. It turns out the rescue operation was truly "hoping against hope."
Phloating Phlasher
06-23-2023, 12:23
At an ambient pressure of 5,582.8818 PSIG (378.78 atmospheres)
There's no recognizable tissue to recover.
Johnny P
06-23-2023, 07:37
The story of "Green Boots"
https://allthatsinteresting.com/tsewang-paljor-green-boots
So, climbing too high and diving too deep is dangerous. I figure, some of these folks aren't happy and need something large. Well, who is happy? Just one more hit, or if you have the funds..
Diving deep and dying represents people who have big ideas and base their belief in the success of human development. Or, just bad decisions. Hey, we're only here for a short while.
So, climbing too high and diving too deep is dangerous. I figure, some of these folks aren't happy and need something large. Well, who is happy? Just one more hit, or if you have the funds..
Diving deep and dying represents people who have big ideas and base their belief in the success of human development. Or, just bad decisions. Hey, we're only here for a short while.
These situations are already dangerous. Climbing too high represents thin air and extreme cold along with walking/climbing on steep and often slick rocks and ice.
As for the Titanic dive, they went 2 1/2 miles deep in a plastic boat whereas a multi-million dollar engineered steel sub can only withstand about 1000'.
Some places man shouldn't travel or even try but if the desire is there they should make better preparations.
Instead of learning by mistakes of others it's more of a "monkey see, monkey do".
Yes, just because one guy got away with it, doesn't mean it will work time after time. Never buy a new product that is 1.0- Especially if it involves drowning and being blown to pieces.
I guess there's worse ways to go.
Experimental Aircraft: was there ever a title that should raise the hairs a little?
I hope this works. Oh ****.
Experimental Aircraft: was there ever a title that should raise the hairs a little?
I hope this works. Oh ****.
Right, but as flaws developed changes were made.
Everyone that was interviewed that previously took a trip in the toy sub feared for their lives not only because of the danger of the voyage but because of what they were in and the short cuts the management was making.
Johnny P
06-26-2023, 07:00
Mountain climbing seems to be the more dangerous of either going up as far as you can or down as far as you can.
“But when I say our sport is a hazardous one, I do not mean that when we climb mountains there is a large chance that we shall be killed, but that we are surrounded by dangers which will kill us if we let them.”
- George Mallory, 1924
No one knows exactly how many bodies remain on Mount Everest today, but there are certainly more than 200. Climbers and Sherpas lie tucked into crevasses, buried under avalanche snow and exposed on catchment basin slopes – their limbs sun-bleached and distorted. Most are concealed from view, but some are familiar fixtures on the route to Everest’s summit.
Perhaps most well-known of all are the remains of Tsewang Paljor, a young Indian climber who lost his life in the infamous 1996 blizzard. For nearly 20 years, Paljor’s body – popularly known as Green Boots, for the neon footwear he was wearing when he died – has rested near the summit of Everest’s north side. When snow cover is light, climbers have had to step over Paljor’s extended legs on their way to and from the peak.
Phloating Phlasher
06-26-2023, 11:18
I've done some adventurous stuff over the years, Caving, including night & deep + wreck & Cave Diving, what nowadays would be called "extreme" camping & hiking & gliding/flying, using explosives & shooting.
I found that overwhelmingly the people doing these things were the most cautious, careful & safety oriented of any others I know.
The problem is the know little (who think they know everything) "cowboys" who actively court the danger. Remember "Xtreme Sports"? I was introduced to one of the competitors, he was PROUD of "having the body of a 60 year old" because of all the broken bones & other injuries he'd sustained. he was in his mid 20's!
I think evolution has restarted & its weeding out the low hanging fruit.
382 or so. I met a guy like that once. He got peoples attention. The first gen X or whatever tattoos I'd seen. He had a couple of teeth knocked out. Space alien tattoos. Well, it wasnt a spider web on the elbow. He was dating the department generals daughter. That's what I heard. Anyway, when asked about his appearance and dental disorders he said, that's what you've got to do. That's a wild and crazy family. How did the kid turn out? I don't know. Hope he lassoed himself and took a break before the next move.
Phloating Phlasher
06-28-2023, 07:10
I just don't get the same "Warm Fuzzies" from a home made jury rigged, using expired materials, & components way beyond their design limits Hand made submersible, that I do from a nice hand-made suit!:fish:
I just don't get the same "Warm Fuzzies" from a home made jury rigged, using expired materials, & components way beyond their design limits Hand made submersible, that I do from a nice hand-made suit!:fish:
I think others would agree with you if they were still around.
barretcreek
06-28-2023, 07:44
Take a home made hang glider out on day with 'good thermals' (thunderstorms) to see if you can set an altitude record.
Same thinking.
Take a home made hang glider out on day with 'good thermals' (thunderstorms) to see if you can set an altitude record.
Same thinking.
+1
And don't forget to take passengers.
Some things are dangerous by nature even in the best scenarios. One of those is wreck diving even in shallow water. I have a friend who was a navy salvage diver. He also did recreational scuba diving including some wreck diving. He told me once about diving the wreck of the Prinz Eugen. He came up got into the boat and found himself in the company of some very worried people. Two divers who had gone down before him had not come back. He recalls vividly to this day standing on the deck with their wives watching the minutes tick off as their air ran out. They've never been found.
The deeper you go the more dangerous it gets. As a hard hat driver he was told that at the deep end of the equipment's capability if the suit failed your entire body was going to try real hard to fit into your helmet.
Titanic explorers have known someone would die down there eventually but they always assumed it would be from becoming trapped in the wreck in a vehicle like a MIR, not the failure of a rinky dink do it on the cheap expirimental vehicle.
Here's a fun one. You probably don't want to fly with this guy. Skip ahead to 6:00 o'clock(about half through the vid).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AhQvm27IYU
I've yet to see a pic of the right side of the sub, so I assume
that is where the hatch is. Considering how crappily this thing
was made, the hatch could be a big cork.
I've yet to see a pic of the right side of the sub, so I assume
that is where the hatch is. Considering how crappily this thing
was made, the hatch could be a big cork.
The front viewing window was only rated to something like 4800'. The Titanic rest at 12,500'. A red flag by itself right there. It was found, intact, but detached. The hatch may be the same case. At this point we don't know the weak point but you may be on to something with the right side observation.
As far as pressures go, once the pressure is equilibrium on all sides the implosion ends. The human body is full of air including the blood and brain so "boom" is the only way the pressure will equate @ 6500psi. Remember the Titanic itself is mostly intact---the pressure equalled slower though as it sunk instead of an actual implosion at once.
Johnny P
06-28-2023, 04:09
Some doctor explained that the passengers never knew it happened. They had been disintegrated before the sight was transferred from their eye to the brain, and the auditory nerve had not transmitted the sound.
Phloating Phlasher
06-29-2023, 10:54
I was given the impression that the only entry/exit was via the front "end Cap" which was bolted back on after entry. No "side hatches" at all.
Interestingly the end cap being raised had the tie strap passing through the big hole in the end cap where the "window" should have been!
To me that says the port which was under rated massively, blew.
With all these billionaires building spacecraft for very expensive
trips into space and racing to see who gets there first.
(Virgin Galactic went up today) - I fear there could be another
catastrophe in the cards. It seems some devious character
has devised a way to kill off millionaires
I fear there could be another
catastrophe in the cards.
I think they're on borrowed time already.
I read today that OceanGate is still advertising ads for the Titanic dive. I suppose they haven't pulled their listing yet. Surely they aren't this dumb. A new pilot for the sub would really be dumb.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12247875/OceanGate-Expeditions-advertising-250-000-trips-Titanic-wreckage.html
Robert Scott
06-29-2023, 05:04
They could have used the Flex Seal tape advertised on TV to save that sub but I bet they missed the 15 minute window for free shipping...
They could have used the Flex Seal tape advertised on TV to save that sub but I bet they missed the 15 minute window for free shipping...
LOL,
They could have used the Flex Seal tape advertised on TV to save that sub but I bet they missed the 15 minute window for free shipping...
As far fetched as their commercials are they would have built the whole sub out of the tape.
If only they'd had the foresight to take some Duct Tape with them on the Sub.
"The Martian" would have perished if not for Duct Tape.
"Never leave home without it"
Robert Scott
07-02-2023, 12:06
If only they'd had the foresight to take some Duct Tape with them on the Sub.
"The Martian" would have perished if not for Duct Tape.
"Never leave home without it"
And it certainly helped save Apollo 13.
https://www.universetoday.com/63673/13-things-that-saved-apollo-13-part-10-duct-tape/
If they have recovered most of the vessel, there is a 100% chance that human remains wrapped in the hull preserved by 1,000 times the pressures I use to can fish and green beans in my pressure cooker.
Phloating Phlasher
07-04-2023, 01:17
If they do it'll look like Scrapple hit with a pile-driver.
Crab food, or whatever ugly looking monster lives down there.
barretcreek
07-05-2023, 04:13
This article shows a the right side of a model of the sub.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen
This article shows a the right side of a model of the sub.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/the-titan-submersible-was-an-accident-waiting-to-happen
If there was ever an example of the truth of the ancient proverb "those who the gods would destroy they first make mad" its in this article.
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