Techie question. (radio slaving strobes)

[Phloating Phlasher]

I finally gave up on optical "Slave Flash" triggers & am looking into radio units as an upgrade.
Looking for user experience.
I have basic requirements, no dedication, No TTL just Hot shoe.
Equipment

Cameras
Fuji Finepix S 7000
Fuji Finepix S 9100

Lights
Sunpak 622 auto
(5v trigger)

Sunpak 611 auto
(180v trigger via Wein safe Sync so 5v)

Vivitar285HV (new version)
(6v trigger)

Sunpak auto super 383
(6v trigger)

Vivitar 5600
(6v trigger)

I'm looking for the ability to use up to 4 Units for mini home studio purposes. Maximum distances will be probably 50' so real long range is not a particular benefit
Any reviews, based on actual experience preferably.
Good & bad points please totally uncommitted at this point, but the "GoDox CT16" with 4 receivers seems to be leading the pack. Any experiences with that exact model?
Sorry for the rubbish video image quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw_8eNVHaxw

[Doc Sharptail]

I'm having a hard time getting on here. Android phone based Google is the only way I can get the site to open.

As to the flash triggers I have no experience with the modern stuff. The built in optical slaves on the Bowens monolights always worked for me.

[Phloating Phlasher]

I have 4 Wein optical slaves. I've used them for years.
They're a lot more directional than I need now.

[Ltdave]

godox seem to be pretty good. there is also the vello freewave fusion (on BH Photo Video) but i dont have any experience with them

i had pocket wizards with my canon 580EX II but had to use an RF baggie (cotton sleeve with faraday coil wires inside) because the 580s had too much interference and they did not have much reliability. probably much better with the speedlites you have listed.

currently using the canon 600EX-RT with the dedicated canon 3st-rt (?) transmitter but obviously that wont work for your situation.

[Phloating Phlasher]

Thanks. you may have made up my mind for me! The vello freewave fusion uses ALL "AAA" batteries. Both receiver & transmitter. The "GoDox CT16" with 4 receivers uses "AAA" for the receivers, but a 12V 23A lithium battery (Not included) for the transmitter.
I've never seen such a battery locally.:1948:

[Phloating Phlasher]

UPDATE!
I've discovered the real problem with sync slaving a 285HV, (NOT a 285, this only applies to the newer units).
Trigger voltage!
Yep the old 180v units worked, & the optical slaves parasitically stole this from the sync contacts to power the units. (the HV The new ones easily ID'd as HVs & have the external power socket.) had that reduced drastically so as to not wreck modern flash sync solid state switches. Unfortunately they did it too well!
The modern stuff is all geared to a 6v system, but they reduced it to a 4v trigger, less than the 5v threshold needed to trigger!

[Phloating Phlasher]

Well, I found a deal on a set of 4, 16 channel "Tranceivers" yep they can be either, both, or switch to just a receiver.
It also includes a different brand of dedicated transmitter & a single dedicated receiver. With the Chinese habit of co-branding one line through multiple brand names, all with both legit & not, clones & copies its claimed the transmitter will work all the receivers, so its a 5 light setup potentially! Not that I'd probably ever us it that way! (I like MAIN, FILL, HAIR (or BACK), with maybe a "shadow eliminator" on the background.
They had decent reviews & as all i need is sync they're more than adequate.
Fingers crossed.

[Phloating Phlasher]

UPDATE!
FAIL, Grr.
It turns out they are dedicated (boy howdy are they ever) for Canon exclusively.
Bummer they won't even wake up from battery saving mode on mine because they check for the camera being in focus before "waking up".
Other than that they seem to be really nice, well made units.All are both transmitter and receiver. Because of that they can be a cordless cable release, a flash trigger or both.

[Doc Sharptail]

UPDATE!
FAIL, Grr.
It turns out they are dedicated (boy howdy are they ever) for Canon exclusively.


That's too bad. Perhaps the seller would be willing to exchange for what you need on the camera side?

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[Phloating Phlasher]

Oh, I do hope so.
He doesn't accept returns, (or reply to messages either), but E-bay has a money back warranty. I want to give him a fair chance to reply first though. I think its more selling stuff he doesn't really understand than criminally defrauding.
In the interim I've ordered a set I know will work & am waiting for them to arrive.
Meanwhile a few images with the old optical slaves. They work, kinda-sorta. But I have now obtained a Vivitar 5600 which will work with them, unlike the 285HV.
Nothing fancy just checking the lighting setup that will both work with optical slaves & look good with "Soft" & "Hard" images.

The long suffering stuffed penguin (It works fer cheap), sometimes with a grey rabbit. It's lit with
Sunpak 611 with a little diffusion for main at 2 o'clock & 40? up as MAIN.
Sunpak 622 (bounce diffusion) as "Fill" 8'o clock 30? at 1/2 power.
Vivitar 5600 zoomed out to "tele" as a rim-light. Full power, 11 O'clock 80? up.

80 ISO 1 125@ f11.

In practice I'd drop the MAIN to 1/2 power, the Fill to 1/4 power to let the backlight "pop" a little more on the dark black "feathers".

The slaves I went with main & fill as above but moved slightly to kill reflections from the shiny plastic & polished metal

54284

54285

- - - Updated - - -

Note: sorry the "?" is a "degree" symbol, but the site doesn't seem to understand it.
Click the thumbnails for bigger image

[Phloating Phlasher]

Ebay intervened, based on the fact he sent me the wrong item.
He sent me a return shipping label.
Still awaiting delivery of the replacements! (groan)

[Phloating Phlasher]

The "New" radio triggers arrived, finally.
Yay they work!
The red lights indicate a signal received from the transmitter, initiated by firing the camera shutter.
It also confirms Sync.
54310

- - - Updated - - -

first test.
54312
Now to build the lighting setup(s)
I still have the photo-slaves so in theory I have an 8-light (No Idea why but if needed it can be done, I think) setup.

[Doc Sharptail]

Glad you got it worked out to something usable.

My work with studio flash was generally pretty limited. I did find a surprising amount of image quality improvement by going to the umbrella based mono-lights system~ very nice and strong diffuse light with little effort. The built in incandescent key/set-up lights helped a lot. I also used a vivitar 285 for a back/hair light at 1/4 power an awful lot.

My photographic interests have changed quite a bit over the years, and I'm more drawn to natural light (which can be a real pain at times), and what I can do with it.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[Phloating Phlasher]

When I was working I had a 3-light "Multiblitz" setup from Germany, the whole thing went in a supplied suitcase. Similar to mono-lights. 3X 200 W/S units.
Very handy for traveling location shots for the sports magazines, which we did a lot of. Way overkill for a home studio doing mostly firearms & table-tops though.
I can easily add smallish umbrellas to these as the triggers all have a mount on the side too!

https://fk-secondhand.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/093792_multiblitz_minilite_200_3er_set_mit_zubehoe r_01.jpg

[Phloating Phlasher]

Latest from E-Pay.
They absolutely will credit me for the wrong item shipped.
any day now . . .
Any Day now. . .
Meanwhile I replaced them & ordered a couple of umbrellas.
One arrived defective, the catch that holds it open disintegrated bits flew off across the room as I opened it for the first time.
They're crediting, not replacing it.
any day now . . .
Any Day now. . .
:eusa_wall:

[Phloating Phlasher]

Credit issued today!
Now I know how Odysseus felt when he finally landed on Ithaca.
:headbang:

[Phloating Phlasher]

One of my other low paid models :icon_lol:
This one I call "Ole FugWit". He has a boozing issue :1948:

54390

I didn't really need a 4-light setup for this but I was testing the strobes working together & the radio synch so I used everything. Its a variation on Kodak's old "Wrap-Round Lighting".

54389

[Doc Sharptail]

Jug is probably worth a bit if it's antique.
My parents would sing "Little Brown Jug" with Dad on guitar/harmonica and Mom on accordion. They were actually pretty good, and could carry a tune.

Looks like a Sunpak green ring in the fore-ground. I used a similar set up with 3 lights- umbrellas high and low from left and right, and a smaller (285 at 1/16th power) as a back-kicker. Liked my rear light mounted low behind the subject for extra depth.

I should investigate back-drop paper and stands, if it hasn't gained too much price wise. There was a gray I liked that was very close to 18%.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[Phloating Phlasher]

The jug is far from an antique!
"Platte Valley" is a bit of a gimmick, but legal "shine" & rather good too. Not "rotgut" but they trade on the reputation.:icon_e_surprised:

Background paper, "Thunder Grey"?

Mostly Sunpaks!
"Main" is a 611.on 1/1
"Wrap" is a 622 on 1/2
"Hair" is a "383 Super" with the zoom head & bounce card on 1/2
"Fill" is a Vivitar 5600 with zoom head on "W" with a home made bounce card. Good catch!

I also have a Vivitar 285HV, but that lives in the gadget bag as a the off camera flash for the Fuji FinePix S 9100.

I have this oddball grip bracket for it. I've never seen another like it! It has the usual "Vivitar flash bracket" look, but its a Sunpak & fitted with a ball & socket flash shoe! It lets me angle the 285 into "impossible" positions including macro! (the 9100 Has terrible low light~macro performance, one of its few weaknesses)

54391

[Doc Sharptail]

https://i.imgur.com/Hgv6IzK.jpg

Sunpak 3600 at left with Nikkormat FTN and Nikkor 50mm f1.4. It takes 6 AA batteries in the top of the head and has a guide number of 36.

Vivitar 283 at right on the F2 camera with 50mm f2 nikkor H via the AS-1 flash coupler. It's trigger voltage is awfully high at 300+ volts d.c.
It has the filter diffuser holder, but no plates. Both flashes came in package deals with cameras.

The Sunpak was not very well thought out in terms of power, unless of course, one had an A/C adapter for it. It eats the double A's pretty quickly on full power manual. I actually sort of like it- the gold backed tube in it is a bit warmer than the Vivitar 285, which is similar in light out-put.

https://i.imgur.com/wW3GY0g.jpg

Nikon SB-22 here on the F2. Guide number is supposedly 28, but in actual use at full power manual, it's closer to 27, and a bit cold temperature wise. Certainly not a very photogenic flash- it's hard to get a decent photo of it with the red A/F sensor control cover taking up most of the front.

The studio lighting stuff is long gone. The big Bowens mono lights with their A/C power systems, modeling lights, umbrellas and stands made life easy and quick.
Went with a couple of Metz 60 CT-2's when I got into the medium format/wedding stuff. The battery systems on them were not very reliable. I hear there's a lithium-ion replacement pack available for them now, but know even less about it.

The back-drop paper we used was actually a kodak made/marketed item, and was actually listed as medium grey. It was fairly neutral, and hair really stood out well in front of it.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[Phloating Phlasher]

I think "Thunder Grey" was a Larsen-made one?

Trigger voltages weren't a problem till the Nikon F3 came out IIRC. We had a customer who paid a premium to get the "Firstest, latest & greatest" & fried it the first day!
The 611 is high at 180 DCv, but I have a couple of "Wein Safesynchs" attached to the 611 sensors & the GX8R ringlflash which use the old 180DCV trigger voltage.
The 285HV (with its "safe" low voltage trigger) is actually the big problem!

The "peanut" slaves, & the old HV optical ones were parasitic, they took power from the sync circuit. That was the problem with the "New, Safe" 285HV. They went too far! The 180v wasn't just reduced to 8 DCV, But even lower to 4.5 DCv. Because of that they didn't trigger because of the low input voltage!

[Doc Sharptail]

Ran into a bit similar problems with "modern" optical slaves not triggering the Sunpak 3600 A/T. Both are less than a year old. They trigger the tiny voltage nikon SB-22 just fine.

https://i.imgur.com/BsQ3TfI.jpg

There's a look at my simple 2 bounce flash set-up. It's fine for the smallish subjects, mostly- provided they aren't too reflective.

https://i.imgur.com/xUfHiMC.jpg

With the 180 volt trigger 3600 A/T corded into the p.c. socket on the D-810 on full manual power. The SB-22 was firing at reduced manual "M/D" (motor-drive) off the optical slave. Nikkor 50mm f2 at F5.6 and ISO 64. Un-manipulated except for re-size to fit here.

https://i.imgur.com/G2a0bro.jpg

Bounce reflections get a little different without a snooted fill. I actually kind of like this accidental effect. Same lens and settings as above.

https://i.imgur.com/X5LgX0A.jpg

Nikkor 200mm Micro f4 at F8 here and ISO 64, full power auto on the Sunpak head. That is the lens on the D-810 in the first photo.

Toying with the idea of getting a modern flash, but am still pretty well un-decided yet.
Ideally, I'd end up with something with full and fractional manual control. That old Sunpak 3600 A/T is getting a bit on the wrong side of 40 years old, and my trust in it not frying the camera ain't all that great.
We shall see a bit later on, especially if there is something at a good price on the used market.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[Phloating Phlasher]

If you do get new strobes there's an on line DIY page where they show how to make bounce cards with "craft foam", it just straps on with a velcro wrap-strap.
You can get the stuff at hobby stores or on-line.
All the "nun's wimple" types shown in my earlier pics are from there.

54439

[Doc Sharptail]

Your Sunpak handle flash looks to be an up-date(?) over the 3600 A/T.

I think I am going to wait until I can find a Nikon unit from the mid to late 80's with a bit more power- something in the G/N 40 (meters) range. I don't really need all the automation of I-TTL and auto focusing heads and reflectors- when it comes to flash, I usually end up going to full manual operation anyways.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[Phloating Phlasher]

Its non dedicated, but thyristor auto exposure IIRC 5-stop range & manual power reduction from FULL to 1 /128th.
GN in ft is 160 & 100 Iso

My other potato masher is the later 622
Dedicated (by swapping module only) or auto thyristor/manual with power reduction also from FULL to 1/128, GN in ft is 180/220 (depending on interchangeable head) & & 100 Iso
The HUGE advantage to me is the swiveling, tilting & zooming head. "C" cell battery packs are also quick change, but I've never managed to run one down! :eusa_dance:

54442

[Doc Sharptail]

I think my particular Sunpak was a short term offering, and likely one of their first "pro-sumer" efforts- aimed of course at the "advanced amateur".

Build quality seems a step down from the 422-D shoe mount I gave to my sister. The main fly in all this ointment is the power source. I really can't envision true professional use with this unit, unless the A/C adapter is used.

It runs a bit better than I was expecting it to with 6 double "A" NIMH's in it. I can get 32-36 full power manual frames out of them before the capacitor starts slowing due to voltage drop, and about 40-50 full power auto frames. It starts to push a bit on the hard side at low ISO's and smaller aperture values, which some of my better macro lenses require for optimal definition. There is not a lot of on-line reference for the 3600 A/T, which leads me to believe production was fairly short. The rotating swivel head on it is actually pretty useful. I got it without the zoom panel, which is a fairly common occurrence with this design. There are several Vivitar's around with the same missing zoom panel problem.

I have a bit of looking around and reading to do yet, before I can find something that will work the way I want, with a bit more power.

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[Phloating Phlasher]

Agreed, there's a very noticeable build quality drop between the 611 auto & the 622 Pro!

[Doc Sharptail]

Found a Nikon SB-600 in a pawn shop at a price I can live with. It has built in slave capabilities that I have yet to look into. Power level is just out of the mediocre at a G/N of 38 and meters. Recycle time is pretty fast compared to the older units, even at full power manual. It definitely likes the upper capacity NIMH's of which it takes 4 of the A/A size. The interesting thing is that it will provide full TTL exposure in program mode with a chipped lens. Probably have more on this later after I've had time to do a bit of work with it.

-D.S.

[Phloating Phlasher]

Sounds nice. At least you won't have the compatibility issues with the slave being built in!