So I know that ishapore manufactured 2a's that shoot .308, but has anyone converted there .303's to 308's? I say this because I want a .308 enfield, but I want as many British parts as possible. Is this possible and has anyone done this?
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So I know that ishapore manufactured 2a's that shoot .308, but has anyone converted there .303's to 308's? I say this because I want a .308 enfield, but I want as many British parts as possible. Is this possible and has anyone done this?
The Brits converted fairly large numbers of No4 rifles to 7.62mm NATO as emergency war reserve. 7.62mm No 4T sniper of one flavor or another served as front lined British sniper rifles until the mid - late 1980s. These 7.62mm rifles of any variety are rare birds over here. The conversion requires among other things, a new barrel, front sight, trigger guard, bolt head, extractor and magazine (I know I left stuff out but others will correct me.) I also understand that these rifles can have problems with ejection if you don't have the correct magazine. This conversion is not a job for the untrained even if you can get the parts.
Ishapore (nor anyone else as far as I am aware) made Enfields in "Win 308".
A number of Countries / factories and private gunsmiths have manufactured or modified Enfields to 7.62 NATO - In Britain alone the MOD used L42 and L39 rifles in 7.62, The police used the Enforcer in 7.62. I Canada there was a big programme of 7.62 modifications, and of course Ishapore,
There are probably 100,000's of 7.62 Enfields.
Do not be fooled that 308 & 7.62 are the same. They are not. The cartridge looks pretty much the same but the case thicknesses are diferent and the rifle chambers are not the same. For example there is a 13 thou (0.013") difference in headspace, and you cannot just use 308 headpaces to gauge your 7.62.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...308Vs762-2.jpg
Thanks for the advice, gents. I currently want a 7.62 enfield that is true British steel, but an l42 is out of my price range. How hard are parts to find? I will have a gunsmith assemble said parts to a no.4 when I find one. How hard is it to find 7.62 NATO no. 4 that was already converted?
"...In Canada there was a big programme of 7.62 modifications..." Only by The DCRA(shooting only, not like the NRA) on No. 4's and single shot target rifles only. Never done by the CF.
Ishapores were never conversions either. Made from scratch in the mid 60s.
There used to be .308 barrels for No. 4's floating around 35 years ago. No mags though. Did a few in the shop I worked in then. Only because we had the proper action wrench and the barrel vise I made. Do not hire a smithy who doesn't have the proper action wrench. He'll twist the receiver.
Anyway, you'll need a barrel and mag if you want it to be more than a single shot. No idea where you find a barrel. Ishapore mags will not fit a No. 4, but can be made to by grinding off the bottom locking lug. Still be the wrong follower though.
Years ago I bought a one off 7.62 conversion by Cogswell & Harrison, imported and sold by Brian Dick. It used some modified standard parts like the mag, charger guide and extractor. I have owned it for 12 years and aside from launching bullets sidewise, as I reported here, it is fine. A proper recrown fixed that. Brian has an import license and he may be able to get one for you if the UK is so full of them. I did contact C&H to see if they had records on this rifle but no luck.
He owns www.bdlltd.com
He is a good guy to deal with.
Found his sight and sent him an email. This could be what I'm looking for. Thanks a bunch m1.
Well unfortunately, I contacted Brian dick, and he informed me he no longer has any 7.62 enfields. Back to the drawing board. Nice guy, though.
There are half-a-dozen here
http://www.gunbroker.com/Firearms/BI...s=enfield+7.62
Thanks Alan. Seems to be 400$ For the going rate on an ishapore. It's no No.4 mk1, but it'll get the job done.
Look up Bill Wylde . Bill is a member and posts here .Bill has forgotten more about monkeywrenching No4's in .303 & 7.62x51mm NATO than just about anyone I know and I am or was a TAMO officer running a central small arms repair depot for six months .
Nice and very helpful guy and may be able to set you up with what you need !
JR
Thanks. I sent him a message, hopefully he can help.
....if you can find .310"-.312" projectiles. I've had very little luck on that front. I have an order that's been pending at Midway so long that my credit card expired and I had to send them the updated info. Components are so hard to find for me, anyhow, that I hoard my reloads almost like my factory or milsurp.
See, gents, that's the bigger issue. You can only reload so long. It is seriously getting depressing trying to find not standard calibre ammo or components these days.
This thread made me think of something. Hammer marks on the threaded portion of 7.62 conversion action bodies. I seem to remember having and seeing several conversions with Longbranch 7.62 barrels that were probably indexed in this manner. I think I may still have one such conversion on a Longbranch action that belonged to our long-time Illinois State Rifle Association Secretary, George Bjornstad. Would this have been common practice?
Is the ishapore the only real affordable enfield in 7.62 NATO? I have a feeling even if I manage to get a barrel, it's not going to be cheap...
I look at it like all other Enfields they were battle rifles not target rifles. Made to go bang in terrible condition and hold minute of man.
In the attached photo the hammer marks that I've seen often on the conversions is evident. Nothing that bothered me particularly, but I was curious if this was common practice. Quite evident is that the barrel probably didn't index and the hammer elongated the metal enough for the indexing to take place.
I did find a couple takeoff LB conversion barrels, but know there is a new one somewhere. Also found a CMK4 barrel marked '58. Would that be a 6 groover? I forgot to look for a marking.............
Is there anything that would fit a standard no.4 mk1 rifle and stock?
Another No4 MkI? ;)
Nothing on the budget end that I'm aware of. All else are sniper and target rifles built up to exacting (and pricey) specs.
Bill, I wasn't aware of those hammer marks but thanks for showing them to us. I know a bit more now that you said it's common enough that you've seen it before. As far as indexing, couldn't that be done with a shim prior to setting headspace?
J.B.,
Everything No 4 was expendable in the day. I've had many tell me they used the timber to start fires. Shims can be difficult to make, but a little hammer work can settle things quickly. I've listened to the stories by the hour and paid to carry off beautiful new LB furniture by the armload. My buddies up there could not believe I was paying for such. Now they want it back!:icon_lol:
I too have heard how the various plants used stocks for firewood, barrels for a fence, and Morris tubes for rebar in concrete machinery pads. Back then it was surplus junk being put to good use!
Have several Morris tubes they missed. LOL
I knew the marking was on the lug, JR, but didn't look before I wrote that. Found it a day or two later and sho-nuf. The next move will be to clean the grease out of it. Not sure yet if it is new.
Cleaned the grease out of that old barrel and it looks excellent. I have just the place for it. A double stamped, never issued, rifle that belonged to Major Colin Brown. A friend of his brought it out of LB and cut the barrel down to a sporter length. The action is stamped with his initials, service area, and service number if I'm not mistaken. I need to ask him. He's 90 now and still an active shooter. Also the Senior Life Governor of the DCRA.
A new barrel, new wood, and a few other parts and that old treasure will have a new life!
If you want one that looks like a No. 4 Mk 2, then the Aussy gun made a few years ago was a good example. But if you're looking for cutting edge accuracy, then an L39A1 is just the thing. Not cheap, but about half of what a comparable L42A1 is going for.
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps6cf1ae2e.jpg
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/s...psc8189a9e.jpg
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/s...ps219059e0.jpg
This is what the gun does at 200 yards. Three 5-shot groups with Lake City (top), an M118A1 load, and a Serbian version of M118 (bottom).
http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/s...psa83ef50b.jpg
One of my very favorite rifles.