1891 Argentine

[BlackJackID]

Hello All,

I recently picked up a stray 1891 Argentine, bought it for $50...My Question is this...It has been rebarrelled in .308 , and I am not sure that action is safe to shoot with factory .308 rounds. I hate that its not in its original configuration though the action is very sound. I pondered reselling it, but dont want to if it isnt safe to shoot..any gudance?

[jon_norstog]

Might have been rechambered. Does the barrel have steps? If that's the case, then the bore will be .311. You could handload and back off on the powder a little, and use .311 bullets.

those are really beautiful rifles, and most of the ones I've seen are pristine. never fired, never dropped.

Good luck!

jn

[randy langford]

As I understand the 7.65 Argentine is midway between the 308 and 30-06 as far as power goes. Has it been sporterised or was the conversion done by the Argentines.

[dogtag]

My advice would be to not shoot factory ammo. I don't think the action is strong enough to withstand
that kind of pressure. I load 22 grains 4198 behind a Lyman 200 grn bullet Gas check crimped only at 312.
It shoots 1 1/2 groups at 100 yds. [mine is scoped]

[BlackJackID]

It does have the stepped barrel..But the chamber is marked ".308 Win"...The stock has been "Bubba'd"...but its in pretty decent shape. I dont handload for the .308, So I guess this one becomes a wallhanger until the right trade comes along...curses....

[jon_norstog]

BlackJack,

that wasn't just any bubba .. most likely it was Ye Olde Hunter CA 1963. Betcha anything!

jn

[jeb]

Last year my son and I went through the same experience with a891 he was given. Had .308 stamped on barrel same yours.

After slugging the bore we made a chamber cast to see what it looked like inside.As jon-norstog correctly surmised the bore was the original .311. I have 1891 Mauser i made into a hunting rifle back in the 1960'sso we compared the two. It appeared someone had removed the barrel, cut approx one-eighth inch off chamber end, then re-chambered to .308. The 7.65x.308 wildcat was well done, has performed well and the accuracy so far has been shooter limited. :-)

Now to whether to shoot .308 factory loads in your 1891. I fully agree with dogtag to NOT SHOOT factory .308 ammo.

A little background on the 1891. Mauser records indicate the action design pressure was 4000 atmospheres, or 58,700 psi. NOTE, this is psi, not CUP, units of pressure. Using a safety factor range of 1.3 to 1.4, the indicated operating pressure would be 42,000 to 45,000 psi; much lower than the 55,000 to 60,000 psi of .308.

I hand load 150 grain jacketed bullets to pressures of 42,000-43,000 psi for hunting.After 40 odd year there has been no change in the rifle and am able to reload my brass multiple times.

All this being said, every rifle should be evaluated on its own merits as to condition, etc. The experience I have had with two 1891's is just that and your rifle may be different.

One more thing, reloading for the 7.65x.308 wildcat. You can make your own special wildcat dies by purchasing the decapping rod ( which has the neck expander) for 7.65 dies from Lee to replace the rod in the .308 sizing die and, if you will pay the return shipping, Lee will drill out the .308 seating die to handle .311 bullets.

Enjoy your new purchase. It is a wonderful example of old world craftsmanship. And talk about a bargain, $50 !!!!! Teach me how.

Jeb

[jon_norstog]

BlackJack:

What Jeb said. reloading can be fun. Anyway, you can load that 7.65 up to equal the .300 Savage or the 30-40 Krag. more than you need for deer and plenty strong for elk, moose and bear. Plus, every time you look at the gun you'll compare it in your mind with the current crop of poorly maCHINED, clunky sporting rifles.

Run with it!

jn

[BlackJackID]

Thank you gentlemen for all of the info on the rifle...I have other rifles that serve the sporting and defense purposes, I just hate seeing a rifle that someone doesnt want and getting neglected, I often bring these "Strays" home and do what I can to restore their former glory.

This particular one I got on a package deal when a guy brought me it and a sporterized p17 Remington.Both were horribly neglected. The Pattern 17 is a good rifle and cleaned up well, and will probably regain its pride during elk season this year as I have now produced 1.5moa groups with her. The Mauser, as I said is still a bit rough, the bore isnt in great shape, but still shootable easily. I just dont have the expertise to handload for it as it needs. I currently only reload .30-06 and .45 auto. easy stuff..

I have cleaned it up pretty well and it has been fitted with a great old set of lyman peep sights. I think she will sit in the safe swapping war stories with the others until someone I know will take care of her comes along.

[BudT]

If you look around some you might find a good barrel to put it back to 7.65 Arg. which is what it should be. I bought a NOS 29 1/4 inch barrel to replace my carbine barrel on my 91, it shoots even better than the carbine barrel. I also had that longtom cut down and re crowned to a 24 inch tube. I put my old barrel in storage, just in case it is needed. Look around and you will find but what ever you do don't load and shoot factory .308 Win. or 7.62X51 nato spec ammo or reloads loaded up to full house loads in that 91........it wasnt designed to hold those pressures and it will damage the rifle and maybe the shooter. HTH

Regards
BudT