USMC Winchester A5 Springfield Marine Mount Rifle in France 1917

[cplnorton]

I just posted this in a discussion in the sniper forum on the WWI cases. But this deserves it's own post.

This picture is one of the most famous Marine A5 pictures, and is featured in many books, but the location and date was never known.

I have long made claims this was taken in France and was very late 1917. But this has always been challenged and I would like to finally clear this up. I have decided I'm going to start to make a lot of my research public because I can clear up a lot of misconceptions on the Marine A5's, and Marine Corps rifles in general. And I have finally decided I'm going to start to share stuff, instead of just sitting on it.

I actually found this picture in the archives in the WWI Army Signal Corps photos taken in France. The number in the bottom left of the picture is actually the Army Signal Corps number.

I also found a new version of this pic that has never been made public or shown online. The are actually two pictures of this Marine.

When you compare the numbers around this pic which are dated more clear, and the locations given, it appears this is most likely taken in December 1917.

So here you go guys. Hope you enjoy this. So now when you see this pic in books, you know when it was taken and where it was taken.

Image 4337 & the backside of the picture





Immage 4338 & the backside of the pic. This is a new picture and I don't think it's ever been published or posted. I didn't know it existed till I found 4337 at the Archives.

[p246]

Thanks for the info and all the research you do.

[cplnorton]

Hey thanks! I really love researching this stuff. It's a lot of fun.

[Fred]

Thanks Steve!

[danco101]

Photo is in Brophys book on the 03. page 505

[cplnorton]

I don't have Senichs or Canfields book in front of me but I think it's all of those too. It's just never been identified of when and where it was taken.

[Fred]

Well it has now thanks to you Steve. Thanks!

[Marine A5 Sniper Rifle]

Just when you think you have all the answers....

US Marines in France, Telescopic Rifle Sight R.jpg

[cplnorton]

I'm not sure what you are arguing Jim? Unless you are now making an argument with me saying the pic was taken around Dec 1917? I based that on the what was around the pic and the fact that it is dated 1917 on #4338.

But actually I think your new proof really doesn't change my initial statement.

All these numbers are the same pic. 4337, 4338, and your alternate number 1537. They are all the same pic. The dates taken on the back of two of these photos contradict each other. One of them is dated 1917 and one is dated 1918. So to me you can only go by the only concrete date, which is on 4338. Which it says it was received on Feb 5th 1918.

So that picture was received in the states on Feb 5th, 1918. It was published in a May 1918 book, so I really have no doubt the date of it being received of Feb 5th 1918 is correct.

So at this time it took on average 2 weeks for a boat ride back to the states, so you are talking if this pic was even was taken in 1918, it had to be in the first couple weeks of January 1918. And that is even without the contradiction of one pic being dated 1917.

Which again I said it was probably taken around December 1917. So I'm not what the argument even is? Unless you are trying to argue a couple weeks? Or do you have anything with a concrete date and just not a generic date of 1918?

This is the May 1918 publishing of the catalogue numbers being all the same.

[bruce]

Great picture. Question. Is that the best scope that was available for use by US forces in that era? Looks like it would be better suited to use on a .22 rifle. Sincerely. bruce.