Wra 1917

[kb1903]

I am looking at a Win. 1917 in the 125,000 serial number range. On the left outside of the receiver is the flaming bomb stamp, along with a star in a circle. I remember reading somewhere that that circled star was on earlier rifles that did not meet parts inter changability requirements. Is that correct? If not, what does it indicate? Thank you. kb

[Merc]

You are correct. The circled star appeared on early Winchester M1917 receivers until February, 1918 and disappeared between S/N 141563 and 145950. There’s a book available “United States Rifle Model of 1917” by C.S. Ferris that describes the M1917 in detail.

Edit - Most of the action parts in my early Winchester M1917 were replaced with a mixture of Remington and Eddystone parts but they all worked. The one “fit” difference I noticed was the Remington mag box was a bit larger than the Winchester mag box. Both worked but the Remington mag would be stuck inside the stock when the trigger guard was removed.

[fguffey]

I remember reading somewhere that that circled star was on earlier rifles that did not meet parts inter changability requirements. Is that correct? If not, what does it indicate? Thank you. kb

I do not disagree with the claim 'they said it'. I disagree with the claim the parts will not fit other M1917s like Remington's and Eddystones. I have 8 M1917/P14s. One of the P 14s is a 30/06, another is a 308 Norma mag. And then there are all of the left over barrels. I have cut the barrel off of a few Mausers thinking I could mount the 308 barrels on the Mauser cut offs.

And no I do not believe I am friends with anyone that considers it is possible.

F. Guffey

[Merc]

My Winchester, with s/n 65030, is living proof that Eddystone and Remington parts will work in Winchesters. However, I’ve not had any experience installing Winchester parts in Eddystones or Remingtons.

[fguffey]

However, I’ve not had any experience installing Winchester parts in Eddystones or Remingtons.

A smith/builder of rifles was swearing off of the P14 when building custom guns when I walked in. I had to calm him down, after that I asked him to explain to me the problem and or 'what it was that he did not understand? He had to retrieve his parts and then began to explain.

There was a magnificent Bridgeport Mill in his shop, I asked him if he was allowed to use it? In no uncertain words the mill belong to him and he was the only one that was allowed to use it. AND THEN I told him to chuck his P14 stock into his vise and make a cut or chuck up the receiver up and make a cut etc. and I told him if he did not believe me "Measure first".

F. Guffey

[RC20]

Guffey is his usual obscure self.

I am not a world expert of course, just a piss ant enthusiast. All the 1917s I have now and the ones gone through my hands (8 or so) all had mixed parts and they all worked fine.

My take was the Parts thing was stupid, better get the guns in the hands of the troops to train and worry about the fit stuff latter. You could even mark them at the Army level you wanted to. The Army does stupid stuff on a regular basis so nothing new. It has its bureaucracy and that gets in the way of stuff to the troops when needed.

So, having worked with tolerances, my guess is that they had the range of plus and minus that was allowed but hit it a lot closer most of the time. Ergo, the parts would work though you might have an occasional one that did not.

[lyman]

Guffey is his usual obscure self.

I am not a world expert of course, just a piss ant enthusiast. All the 1917s I have now and the ones gone through my hands (8 or so) all had mixed parts and they all worked fine.

My take was the Parts thing was stupid, better get the guns in the hands of the troops to train and worry about the fit stuff latter. You could even mark them at the Army level you wanted to. The Army does stupid stuff on a regular basis so nothing new. It has its bureaucracy and that gets in the way of stuff to the troops when needed.

So, having worked with tolerances, my guess is that they had the range of plus and minus that was allowed but hit it a lot closer most of the time. Ergo, the parts would work though you might have an occasional one that did not.

bingo,

the early ones were more not in tolerance than in tolerance, as in replacement parts may need to be fitted vs drop in

[fjruple]

Just a quick comment here. The Circle with the Star was a marking to indicate the Winchester rifle had been inspected and found it be within specification. The main problem was that Winchester jumped the gun (figure of speech) and started to produce the M1917 before the Ordnance drawings could be finalized. Both Eddystone and Remington waited. The AEF (General Pershing) wanted the rifles to be repaired at the lowest level, the company armorer with simple replaced of parts with little or no hand fitting. I believe the only part the needed hand fitting was the firing pin. General Pershing refusal to permit Winchester M1917 rifles in theater had a cascading effect on the issue of the Winchester M1917 serviacablity even to this day from the debates on the forum.

[fguffey]

General Pershing refusal to permit Winchester M1917 rifles in theater had a cascading effect on the issue of the Winchester M1917 serviacablity even to this day from the debates on the forum.

Long before all reloaders became experts there were experts, they all earned the title of expert and they had respect. Roy Dunlap in his book on gunsmithing claimed the M1917 was a good choice and then he graded them from best to worst. He started with the Winchester, he then moved to the Remington and finished with the Eddystone. He declared the Eddystone was anyone's guess meaning the builder never knew what he was getting until after he started.

F. Guffey

[lyman]

Just a quick comment here. The Circle with the Star was a marking to indicate the Winchester rifle had been inspected and found it be within specification. The main problem was that Winchester jumped the gun (figure of speech) and started to produce the M1917 before the Ordnance drawings could be finalized. Both Eddystone and Remington waited. The AEF (General Pershing) wanted the rifles to be repaired at the lowest level, the company armorer with simple replaced of parts with little or no hand fitting. I believe the only part the needed hand fitting was the firing pin. General Pershing refusal to permit Winchester M1917 rifles in theater had a cascading effect on the issue of the Winchester M1917 serviacablity even to this day from the debates on the forum.

Long before all reloaders became experts there were experts, they all earned the title of expert and they had respect. Roy Dunlap in his book on gunsmithing claimed the M1917 was a good choice and then he graded them from best to worst. He started with the Winchester, he then moved to the Remington and finished with the Eddystone. He declared the Eddystone was anyone's guess meaning the builder never knew what he was getting until after he started.

F. Guffey

IIRC, and I may not be Correct, weren't the Winchesters the favorite for conversions to Sniper's or marksmen of that era?




re the Armorer and repairs,
years ago I had the fortune to see and handle (we had it in the shop for about a week before sold) an Armorers set of chests for the 1903 and a few other firearms,

nice sturdy wood cabinet, with galvanized or tin cups on the inside (some were lined, some were just wood) for each part and tools,

very well made, very heavy, and I do wish I could have kept it, or at least taken some photos,

I do still have a 45 colt and 45-70 round somewhere that was in one of the bins, date 1889 IIRC