British Marked Colt M1911A1 Questions

[dave]

Great photos of the German proofs and nice pistol. I always thought it was ironic that the modern German proof was virtually identical to the Nazi Army proof used up until the 1939 time period, with just the N added.

Before the Nazi changed the proof to the eagle/swatzica stamp 'on military arms only', the military proof was the Weimer proof with the 'dropped wings', no letter. The commercial proofs were different then the military ones, even during the Nazi period. Look at any KKW or DSM 'training 22 rifle to see what I mean. They are the ones using letters, N meaning nitro, for instense. Some were eagles (no swatsica), some were crowns.
That 'antler proof' is from a particular Geramn proof house, it was used on some WW1 Gew.98's. Can't remember which one, maybe Elm?

[Johnny P]

For those that were confused by my brief explanation of the similarity between the modern German proof and the Nazi era droop eagle proof I apologize. Instead of using with just the N added, for clarity I probably should have said the Nazi Army proof did not have a N.

For those wondering about a Nazi era KK-W, here are the Nazi commercial proofs.

[gfguns]

For those that were confused by my brief explanation of the similarity between the modern German proof and the Nazi era droop eagle proof I apologize. Instead of using with just the N added, for clarity I probably should have said the Nazi Army proof did not have a N.

For those wondering about a Nazi era KK-W, here are the Nazi commercial proofs.

So was the spread wing eagle pictured used with or without letter other than the Nazi era?

[gfguns]

More info on the proof marks
The Stag horn indicates the ULM proof house and the KF is a date code KF = 1995
The date coding system is very simple too. It gets tricky when you start talking about non-proofed products like firearm magazines, but the general rule is thus:

A B C D E F G H I K
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

[gfguns]

Does anyone else out there have or have seen one of the Russian Lend Lease 1911A1 pistols?

[Scott Gahimer]

Yes, and I'm pretty sure you've seen and we've discussed mine. So, I assume your question is directed at others. I will add, however, that I've seen and/or know about perhaps 7 or 8 of these pistols. I initially was going to purchase one from a dealer at a gun show, but ultimately decided I didn't like the way it looked (maybe recently refinished). That didn't appeal to me, as I'd seen others previously that did not have the same finish. Yours and mine, as we've previously discussed, are very similar and have the appearance that I'd expect to see.

[Johnny P]

So was the spread wing eagle pictured used with or without letter other than the Nazi era?

Prior to the Eagle/N commercial proof, a Crown/N was the commercial proof. The Nazi's used the same small eagle over a swastika for the Army proof beginning in 1939.

This Crown/N proof is on a 1934 era PPK.

[gfguns]

Yes, and I'm pretty sure you've seen and we've discussed mine. So, I assume your question is directed at others. I will add, however, that I've seen and/or know about perhaps 7 or 8 of these pistols. I initially was going to purchase one from a dealer at a gun show, but ultimately decided I didn't like the way it looked (maybe recently refinished). That didn't appeal to me, as I'd seen others previously that did not have the same finish. Yours and mine, as we've previously discussed, are very similar and have the appearance that I'd expect to see.

Scott I do recall discussing this with you but lately my memory is hit miss, something that will not be a factor once my treatment is finished. Thank you for reminding me and I will check it out in your gallery. BTW Could this be considered a thread hi-jacking, if so I apologize to the originator.

[gfguns]

Thanks Johnny
I know Germany did make an effort to do away with any Nazi reminders after the war.

[Johnny P]

Before the Eagle/swastika firing proof the Nazi's droop wing eagle proof virtually identical to the Weimar era proof. Can't remember if I have anything Weimar proofed or not. The modern day German proof, sans the N, is very similar to the Weimar and early Nazi proof.

Then there is the tendency to call all markings "proofs", when that is not the case.

[Mikecp]

Colt M1911A1 1943 with German Proof, released to commercial sales.
Eagle Nitro proof, second Shield for Munich, and 1978 stamp.

[gfguns]

Thanks Mikecp
Looks like original finish,is it? Do you have any addition history on it? could you provide a serial number range?

[Shooter5]

More info on the proof marks
The Stag horn indicates the ULM proof house and the KF is a date code KF = 1995
The date coding system is very simple too. It gets tricky when you start talking about non-proofed products like firearm magazines, but the general rule is thus:

A B C D E F G H I K
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Astounding. So, some geek nerd idiot designed an entire "code" of letters in order to indicate numbers. This, when he could have simply used this amazing system of symbols which were invented to represent numbers; amazingly enough, this system is called "numbers."

[Mikecp]

Thanks Mikecp
Looks like original finish,is it? Do you have any addition history on it? could you provide a serial number range?

Unfortunately I do not have any history, I bought it in a gun shop, and no background on it. The blue barrel is a field replacement from Springfield with the heat lot number AG1 ( 1941-mid 1943) blue magazine has a CL under it (Colt Little)
The only info came from a Colt letter, and was send to:
US Gov. transportation Officer Springfield Armory by 17 February 1943.
Here few pictures.

[gfguns]

Could be a pistol captured by the Germans from a US or allied soldier.Nice looking and Interesting pistol thanks for the info.
Greg