Singer grip comparison

[Scott Gahimer]

Well obviously you think I am referring to you and or your website or you wouldn't have written this long winded defense of your activities...

No, I knew you weren't talking about me or my site. But because you failed to identify who you were talking about, I simply made sure others knew it wasn't me and commented on one"licensed appraiser" and a couple other statements you made which I didn't understand how they played into the discussion. Just contributing to the discussion...

BTW, as of ca. April this year, Chuck still had his hand stamp. Didn't see it then, but he went upstairs and stamped his seal on a letter for a pistol I'd just purchased from him then.

[Tommy2guns]

Scott,
As noted in the conversation regarding Chuck Clawson's embossing stamp, I didn't refer to you or anyone in particular. It was a conversation that was simply observing a possible situation I had been told about. If I ran across something fishy I would go straight to Chuck and get his verification on the item in question. I'm sure it won't be too long before an "expert" pops up and offers a service to authenticate a letter on Chuck authenticating an item.

I pray that Chuck is with us for a long long time so the public doesn't have to fall victim to some idiot with no credentials on handwriting analysis come forward and charge $2000 to verify a letter that they probably wrote themselves and put into the market. We will just have to wait and see. It is kinda like a mortician/undertaker murdering people to increase the amount of business they get.

It is funny to me how some experts run down another person's items with every negative comment they can muster to turn around and self promote their own items and "expertise". It is probably the worst style of business model there is out there and we see it all the time.

I think most every gun collector out there has seen this time and time again and probably have been on the loosing end of it at one time or another. Most people will move along and not make an issue out of it but I bet they won't forget about the who and what.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in denial.....

[gbethu]

"I think most every gun collector out there has seen this time and time again and probably have been on the loosing end of it at one time or another. Most people will move along and not make an issue out of it but I bet they won't forget about the who and what."

Tommy, truer words were never spoken.

[stan4]

It Works!

Tommy, gbethu,

"It is funny to me how some experts run down another person's items with every negative comment they can muster to turn around and self promote their own items and "expertise". It is probably the worst style of business model there is out there and we see it all the time."

That is how we select the outstanding individuals that represent us in society . Sadly, it is done---because it works.

Is reality generally recognized, or is what is individually perceived substituted for reality? (And, who gets to tag reality?)

[Tommy2guns]

Maybe Stan, maybe....

Really not working that great in D.C. though.......

[Johnny P]

Maybe we could change the name of this forum to the Thoroughly Ambiguous Innuendo Forum, and start one called the 1911/1911A1/Service Pistols Forum and talk about guns......?

[gbethu]

I think JP, that they are discussing dick heads who use these and other forums to generate income. Not just collectors interested in 1911s. I am not a dealer, so I don't have an agenda. I don't think you do either. They are just being polite and discussing why some participants who use these discussions to denigrate others to enhance their own business. Not everyone is as straight forward as you are. Wish they were.

[Johnny P]

Actually I can read and understand the forum without having it explained to me, thank you. If $2000 is too much for someone else to spend on having a Singer authenticated, what business is that of anyone else, and what right does anyone else have to bitch about it?

[gbethu]

Well, I might agree it's none of their business but certainly it's everybody's right to bitch about anything they please........ Like reading the New York Times editorial page. Happens everywhere and all the time.

[Johnny P]

This isn't the New York Times, and why screw up this board if bitching is the only reason someone comes here. I believe the worth of this board is measured in how professionally questions are answered and discussions are carried on, not on the presumption that everyone has the right to bitch as much as they want about something no one else knows anything about.

[Jer]

Well Gents, I must say freedom is not free, but speech is.

[gbethu]

Well, I'm gonna let JP have the last word.....OK JP, you win.

[Tommy2guns]

Gentlemen,

I agree that it is any free person in our society's right to charge what he thinks his or her service or product is valued at. It is also anyone's right to completely overpay for the same. I don't know what it is worth for an inspection and appraisal for a Singer but JP there is more to this story than this Singer appraisal.

I have watched and been a part of the "victim's" side of what I would call criminal but most would probably just call something "bad business" on the "experts" behalf.

About 3 years ago I had a neighbor that I did not know that well come to me with a situation as he knew from other neighbors that I was a gun collector. Months before this meeting his brother had died and there were four or five guns left in his estate, willed to my neighbor.

Most were common fodder we all see as average old WW2 wheel guns but one was a three digit Colt 1911 US Army Model. He had his digital camera with him and as I went thru the scroll of photos I see this really top condition 1911 with what appeared to be all correct early parts. Photos of the magazine, grips, etc... All in great digital detail. I told him I would be better equipped at an opinion if seen in person.

I went to his home on invitation to look at them and give him an opinion on value, legality of sale, etc... Once there I took a look at this same 1911, same serial number verified and asked him why he had changed the grips and popped the magazine out, also changed. In the end the mag catch and dimple screw lock were changed and the thumb safety. All if this was more obvious to him once I pointed out the scratches here and there that were not in the photos along with pitting and finish was half of that in the photos.

He produced this "condition report/ appraisal" sheet he had received back with the gun that he had sent off to some guy in Indiana to evaluate his gun. The report basically trashed the gun calling it a mixed parts gun and made him a $2500 offer / valuation for the pistol.

Once I showed him the different parts and questioning him about swapping out parts he quickly cleared my radar as the perpetrator as he was certainly NOT a gun guy and wouldn't turn a screw on any of them. So we gave this little liar a call a went back and forth about these parts for almost twenty minutes before the appraiser came up with the hypothesis that he must have had two guns apart at the same time and simply gotten them mixed up.

He asked that the gun be sent back and he would put the parts back on, of course he didn't want to pay the shipping either way. After my neighbor and I got hot and heavy about it and discussed law enforcement, "BATF" being brought in, the appraiser relented and they basically hung up mad.

The parts arrived two days later and I put the gun back together and corrected the issues. He threw the appraiser's parts in the garbage as he was mad and we never heard another word. He had still charged him $350 or there about to try and screw him over in a very deceitful way. If my neighbor had not taken these great detailed photos before hand then this theft and deception would have gone unchecked and undetected.

If anyone thinks that is an honest mistake, think about the fact that this person is an "expert" and is always right!

No doubt it happened and no doubt it was just down right crooked.

I don't have any issue with an honest person making a living and sharing his expertise with others willing to pay him for it but integrity has to be in place.

I couldn't care less about this guy or his business, I just want to puke when I read his self serving opinions and the subtle way he says these forums are not the place for business and then posts his website info with a nudge to the reader.

This may not the best place to air this information and I apologize to anyone who feels this is harming the hobby of gun collecting and I am done venting this information. The truth will find him out, it always does.

[gfguns]

This isn't the New York Times, and why screw up this board if bitching is the only reason someone comes here. I believe the worth of this board is measured in how professionally questions are answered and discussions are carried on, not on the presumption that everyone has the right to bitch as much as they want about something no one else knows anything about.

I agree with JP. Take your fight/attack some place more appropriate like the BBB, law enforcement, or out to the parking lot.

[Tommy2guns]

I have said my piece or peace, whichever way you would have it.