USGI cleaning rods and brushes questions

[jeremy69]

I have a couple of 1912 squad kits I am working on completing and had some questions. I have both a WWI and a WWII type. It looks like the WWI boar hair brushes are much shorter than the brass ones. Anyone have comparison measurements? I have a couple of different kinds of brass brushes, I am looking to positively identify WWII issue. Some that I have show an exposed loop where it attaches to the threaded base, the other which I believe to be much later is fully crimped into the base. Anyone have a photo comparison? Also my brass rods show some variation in length, 7 came with the kit and I have since picked up 3. I would assume that a 1/4" variance would be normal.

I am also having trouble finding another 8 WWII steel rods and a few more of each brush. Yes I did post a WTB ad here, but if anyone has any leads I would appreciate it. Thanks in advance!

[5MadFarmers]

Wasted post but I'm going to do it anyway.

I read your post. As I digested it my first thought was "M-1911 collectors are crazy." Not a little crazy either. "Lock in padded cells, outfitted in tight bound long sleeve white coats, and feed through the doggie door" crazy. Then I remembered this is the M-1911 board so your post is probably normal. For this board.

Brushes? You're trying to figure out specifically what brass brushes are WW2. Ok, I get wanting the WW1 kits to have the bristle brushes and the WW2 ones to have brass. But distinguishing which brass? That's the part that struck me. That's insane.

I mentioned it to the wife. Told her M-1911 collectors are nuts. Keep medicated 24/7 nuts. She laughed at me.

WW1 kits I have.
WW2 kits I have.
WW1 and WW2 kits rebuilt in the 1950s I have.

The Climax kits I have I've been stuffing with nothing but the O'Hare rods. The other WW2 kits are getting the other WW2 rods. Except some of those kits are getting post-WW2 rods.

The WW1 kits are getting nothing but blued screwdrivers.
The WW2 kits are getting Stanley and Metglas tools.

But I'm not nuts. I'm not trying to determine which brass brush is right.

I have a box of them. WW2 manufacture. Brushes for the M-1911 cleaning kits. Unopened. In there would be the answer. I'm not going to open though. Why not? It's unopened for gob's sake. Opening it would result in me not having an unopened box of them.

But I'm not the crazy one....

[Johnny P]

A pre WWII Cleaning kit in a box marked CLIMAX, with the drawing number C 64152 on the lid, and C 64153 on the end of the box. Wood block is marked with drawing number C 64154, left end rod rack with B 147256 and right end rod rack with B 147258. Rods are bare steel marked U.H.CO. on the loop.

[5MadFarmers]

Yes, those. The only one with the reverse emboss US. Climax is embossed up whereas the others are embossed down. The finish is some kind of phosphate looking thing.

1) WW2 or later. Phosphate. Not climax. Stuffed with rods having JAM5564102 (8), K5564102 (1) and SA5564102 (1). The JAM rods are a little beefier than the other two.
2) WW2 or later. Phosphate. Not climax. Rods have a three letter code which is pretty much unreadable. OHA or something like that. Also 5564102. Nine of those. One MFI-DAL and drawing number.
3) WW2 or later. Phosphate. Not climax. Rods combination of JAM, SA, and NTI. With that drawing number.
4) WW1. Is that bluing? Brass rods.
5) WW2 or later. Phosphate. Not climax. Rods have drawing numbers. JAM, SA, and NTI.
6) WW2 or later. All O'Hare Mfg. Co. rods.
7) WW1. Blue. Brass rods.
8) Climax. O'Hare rods. That kit came with some tools and I left them in it. Punch marked "Marco USA," and a headless chisel looking thing. "H-P Tool 1/4."
9) Climax. Has blocks, can, oiler, but no rods.
10) WW2. Parts kit really. 1960s rods.
11) WW1. Painted green. Missing block.
12) WW1. Painted green. Rossford repack (2/58). When they reassembled it they put the handle/latch on backwards. Late rods.

That it. A random sampling of 12 kits found in the wild. Most rods are that 5564102 series. The WW2 ones are O'Hare. Two of the WW1 kits are painted green so rebuilt in the 1950s (which one has a label for).

Not a single UH Co rod in the mix. I'm not disputing that the Climax came with them. I'm claiming that my luck at finding any is zero. Thus O'Hare rods will have to do.

What I didn't pay attention to is the brass brushes.

Oilers and the "cosmic" or parts cans are easy to find. Rods are the hardest. Spare oilers and parts cans I'm swimming in.

Brush box. Hard to read.

Ok, made a mistake. They're for TMSGs. My bad. Qty 10.

So TMSG brushes are different from M-1911. Important safety tip. The brushes are the "M5" if that's any help.

[Johnny P]

Unopened parts can. According to Clawson it contains:

Barrel Bushing 1
Barrel Link 1
Barrel Link Pin 1
Disconnector 1
Extractor 1
Firing Pin 1
Firing Pin Spring 1
Firing Pin Stop 1
Hammer 1
Hammer Pin 1
Hammer Strut Pin 1
Magazine Catch Lock 1
Magazine Catch Spring 1
Mainspring 1
Plunger Spring 1
Recoil Spring Guide 1
Recoil Spring Plug 1
Safety Lock 1
Safety Lock Plunger 1
Sear 1
Sear Pin 1
Sear Spring 1
Slide Stop 1
Slide Stop Plunger 1
Stock Screw 4
Trigger 1

While I haven't opened the can to see if everything listed is in it, I did try putting all the parts in a spare can and they fit nicely.

[jeremy69]

The parts can is interesting, my WWI kit came with the tin full of parts. Most of what was listed above. I will have to check and see what it has exactly. I did notice there was no slide stop and I figured it was probably the most easily lost and therefore used at some point. The full tin is cool. Unfortunately the only Clawson book I have is the small guide... even those are going for bucks now! I keep looking for the big one in book sales, never know...

[stan4]

Wasted post but I'm going to do it anyway.

I read your post. As I digested it my first thought was "M-1911 collectors are crazy." Not a little crazy either. "Lock in padded cells, outfitted in tight bound long sleeve white coats, and feed through the doggie door" crazy. Then I remembered this is the M-1911 board so your post is probably normal. For this board.

Brushes? You're trying to figure out specifically what brass brushes are WW2. Ok, I get wanting the WW1 kits to have the bristle brushes and the WW2 ones to have brass. But distinguishing which brass? That's the part that struck me. That's insane.

I mentioned it to the wife. Told her M-1911 collectors are nuts. Keep medicated 24/7 nuts. She laughed at me.

WW1 kits I have.
WW2 kits I have.
WW1 and WW2 kits rebuilt in the 1950s I have.

The Climax kits I have I've been stuffing with nothing but the O'Hare rods. The other WW2 kits are getting the other WW2 rods. Except some of those kits are getting post-WW2 rods.

The WW1 kits are getting nothing but blued screwdrivers.
The WW2 kits are getting Stanley and Metglas tools.

But I'm not nuts. I'm not trying to determine which brass brush is right.

I have a box of them. WW2 manufacture. Brushes for the M-1911 cleaning kits. Unopened. In there would be the answer. I'm not going to open though. Why not? It's unopened for gob's sake. Opening it would result in me not having an unopened box of them.

But I'm not the crazy one....

5MadFarmers,

Crazy? Is this a disease? Is it contagious?

Just stumbled across 3 or 4 of these. Now I'm afraid to open them!

Best Regards,

[joem]

I have a couple of those steel rods. I don't remember where I got them, probably at auction with a bunch of other stuff.

[Johnny P]

The parts can is interesting, my WWI kit came with the tin full of parts. Most of what was listed above. I will have to check and see what it has exactly. I did notice there was no slide stop and I figured it was probably the most easily lost and therefore used at some point. The full tin is cool. Unfortunately the only Clawson book I have is the small guide... even those are going for bucks now! I keep looking for the big one in book sales, never know...

The information on the parts can is in the 3rd Edition of his Collector's Guide.

[jeremy69]

The information on the parts can is in the 3rd Edition of his Collector's Guide.

I will have to look at it, I keep the book in the safe these days. Thanks for the reply!

[5MadFarmers]

A pre WWII Cleaning kit in a box marked CLIMAX, with the drawing number C 64152 on the lid, and C 64153 on the end of the box. Wood block is marked with drawing number C 64154, left end rod rack with B 147256 and right end rod rack with B 147258. Rods are bare steel marked U.H.CO. on the loop.

Cracking all the holster makers from both wars wasn't terribly hard. Cracking the inspector initials on them was harder but not hair pulling hard. Finding out specifically when those (Climax) were made and how many were made was hard. Real hard.

Did it. It'll be some time before the book that covers those, and other associated stuff, goes out but I can date those now.