Information requested, SRS check, on 1911A1 serial number X2693866

[Marcus]

It's a Remington Rand lower with a Colt slide. According to what little history I was told regarding this pistol, it was supposedly purchased from the DCM back in the early 1960's....I don't have any other information on it, and no documentation.


From what I have been able to find on these re-numbered X prefix serial numbers, this one was done at Tokyo Arsenal.

I'm wondering if there would be any mention of this particular pistol, or these X number guns in general, in the SRS records.


Or if there is any other source of information on them, and again, on this particular gun.

This is all I could find on them:

http://www.coolgunsite.com/images/1911/xrework/xrework.htm

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/history/rebuild.htm

Thanks and God Bless,
Marcus

[Johnny P]

If you have the DCM documentation you have a nice pistol. The problem with the X renumbered pistols is that more than a few were issue pistols with a defaced serial number until someone thought about giving them an X serial number to legitimize them. Personally, I would not want one unless it had supporting paperwork.

As to the serial numbers being in SRS, it appears that SRS took the information on the X serial numbers from the same place that Charles Clawson did for his book. Serial numbers X2693786 to X2693885 were recorded as having been assigned to Tokyo Ordnance Center on January 10, 1950. You could randomly select any one of those numbers, send it to SRS, and get a letter back on that number. However, that does nothing to authenticate a pistol with the number you sent in. All of the serial numbers assigned may have been used, or none of them may have been used.

[Marcus]

I thought the X prefix serial numbered 1911 series pistols were all issue pistols with a defaced serial number, which was the purpose of the X prefix serial number stamped on them?



So the numbers were assigned, but no records exist as to which were actually used?

[Johnny P]

You are correct that the X prefix serial numbered pistols (the one you show is a 1911A1) were all issue pistols with a defaced serial number. The purpose was to give them a new serial number, but that didn't keep people with stolen pistols with defaced serial numbers from using an X prefix serial number to legitimize their pistol. The DCM paperwork indicating that the X prefix serial number was actually done at and then later sold by the military is the difference. Without proper documentation of the sale, you don't know who did it.

[Scott Wilson]

That looks like an Ithaca receiver.

[Johnny P]

Scott is correct that it is an Ithaca receiver.

[Marcus]

Well, that's interesting to know. I had initially wondered if the frame was Ithaca or Remington Rand, and since I don't have an Ithaca I compared it to photos I could find online.... it seemed that the machining on the Ithaca 1911A1's I looked at photos of was a little rougher than the RR's, so I assumed it was an RR.

Sitting here comparing it side by side with one of my RR's, the only real differences I can see is that this one does not have the Ordnance crossed cannons on the right rear side that the RR's do (both have the FJA inspection stamp), and there is a barely noticeable "scallop" in the frame below the take-down lever on the left side and the take-down lever pin hole on the right side, so where the RR has a little bit of the flat side of the frame visible below the lever on the left side, this one doesn't.

Is this how you differentiate an Ithaca frame from a Remington Rand?

[Johnny P]

Look at the location and size of the M 1911A1 U.S. ARMY on the Remington Rand and Ithaca. The marking on the Remington Rand is smaller and begins closer to the slide stop hole than the Ithaca.

[Marcus]

Thanks!

[keith smart]

Look at the location and size of the M 1911A1 U.S. ARMY on the Remington Rand and Ithaca. The marking on the Remington Rand is smaller and begins closer to the slide stop hole than the Ithaca.

Left trigger guard inspection stamp is a clue also.

[Johnny P]

The left side trigger guard marking did not start on the Ithaca until the 900000 serial number range. The M1911A1 U.S. ARMY receiver marking remained the same throughout production of all Model 1911A1 pistols.