Ideal No. 5 Powder Measure

[cwbuff]

I picked up an old Ideal No. 5 Powder Measure. I searched the web for instructions but could not find any. Does any know how you adjust this thing? There are two brass slides that adjust. The bottom one is thick and top one is thin. Below is a pic of the markings on the top slide. Would love to know how to adjust it.
IdealNo5..jpg

[raymeketa]

You adjust it by hit and miss. The numbers don't mean a thing with the modern powders. You can use them as a reference to go back to a previous powder charge but you still have to make final adjustments by weighing. You use the bottom (thick) slide for a course setting, and then tune it with top (thin) slide and a scale.

Good luck. Those old throwers will usually produce good accuarcy if you learn what it likes and how to operate it (kinda like a woman).

[John Sukey]

Easy way. Set the big slide to anything, drop powder charge, weigh it, note the marks, start from there. The small slide is for fine adjustment It's going to be different depending what granulation of BP you use.
In any case you want to fill the cartidge case to the point where the bullet will contact the powder. BP works best when slightly compressed.

[cwbuff]

I'm planning on using it only for black powder. I have an RCBS dispenser/scale, but I understand it (and others like it) are not safe to dispense BP. I'm looking to measure 37 grains of Swiss 1.5 F powder. I'm reloading for shooting an original Spencer rifle with a centerfire conversion. The loads will go into cut down 50-70 cases. I don't shoot BP very often. When I did, I used Pyrodex RS and don't have any experience with Swiss powder. So should I still load the case to achieve slight compression and not worry about how hot the load is? Thanks.

[JBinIll]

The graduations on your No.5 Ideal measure is calibrated for black powder.The slide you have pictured is the "D" slide.The 0 thru 15 side of the slide is for grains when that slide alone is used.The 10 thru 50 graduations are for use when both brass slides are locked together and pulled out in combination.They were and are used with black powder.The operation of the slides are about the same as the Lyman No.55 which was the replacement for the No.5 measure.Lyman bought out Ideal in the 1920s.The last No.5s had micrometer adjustments to make fine adjustments easier.Otherwise you set it by the marks and weigh the charge thrown on a scale till you achieve the charge weight you want.Do not leave black powder in these measures when not in use,it'll etch the slides.

[raymeketa]

JB

You obviously know a lot more about this than I do. My understanding was that the modern black powders (or equivilents) have different grain sizes than the old stuff and so you have to make the adjustments as you go. With a scale, of course. I think the old Ideal loading books had charts that showed the different settings so you could get very close on the first try. I have one from the early 1900s that has a chart, but it's probably for the No. 55.

I still have two of the No. 55s somewhere in my stuff. Maybe I should find them and put an ad somewhere?

Ray

[JBinIll]

The numbers give you a starting point when using old measures and new powder.Given the OP is wanting to use Swiss 1.5 F which wasn't in existence at the time the No.5 was made will mean a little guesswork to find the setting he needs.The No.5 measure was in production till approximately 1949 and was replaced by the No.55 which is still in production by Lyman.Those old measures have three slides,"D","E",and "F".The "F" slide graduations are on the bottom when it is pulled out and measure in 5 grain increments from 5 to 140.As the old Ideal handbooks say,graduations should be regarded as reference points only.

LOL It's easier to show someone how to set one of these old measures than explain it.

[JBinIll]

I picked up an old Ideal No. 5 Powder Measure. I searched the web for instructions but could not find any. Does any know how you adjust this thing? There are two brass slides that adjust. The bottom one is thick and top one is thin. Below is a pic of the markings on the top slide. Would love to know how to adjust it.
[ATTACH]20200[/ATTACH]

Go to page 11,the instructions are for the No.55 but operation is the same for the No.5.It's takes a bit to download this-

http://www.castpics.net/subsite/HistMolds/IdealHandbook38.pdf

[cwbuff]

Thanks - good information. I'm getting really interested in black powder cartridge reloading, so I may have some other questions. My focus is on 56-56 Spencer, 50-70 Govt (Trapdoor) and 45-70 Govt (Trapdoor), plus some 12 gauge and 16 gauge.

[jon_norstog]

Not to hijack the thread, but ...

CW, did you say something about certain measures being unsafe for BP? I've been using an all-plastic Lee measure. I haven't noticed any problems with static electricity, but you got me thinking. What say, O wise ones?

jn

[cwbuff]

In my research, I did see that certain powder measures were not safe for black powder due to risk of static electric discharge. Why that is not a problem with smokeless powders, I don't know. In particular, the instructions with my RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 Powder Scale and Dispenser state that it is not "suitable" for black powder. I "assume" it is the plastic parts. That said, if you google "Harrell's Precision black powder measure", which some consider the top of the line, some of them have a plastic container. So it may be the type of plastic. Perhaps some more experienced black powder reloaders will know what the issues are.

[JBinIll]

This has pretty well been debunked.If there was a danger with static how come GOEX recently switched to plastic powder containers?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?118603-Measure-for-Black-powder

If it really worries you and you've got an old Lyman/Ideal No.55 laying around you can get brass replacement hoppers,it's a lot bigger and looks old timey.I've got an Ideal No.1 set up with a brass hopper-

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=158639&CAT=4497

[John Sukey]

Lyman makes an all aluminum BP powder measure. They also have an aluminum "drop tube" for it. The reason for the drop tube is to compress the BP so you can duplicate the originasl grain weight

[BudT]

KIK BP is in plastic containers. I dont shoot Swiss so I dont know about that one.

[cwbuff]

I have an RCBS 1500 Chargemaster scale/dispenser. In the RCBS catalog it states "NOTE: Do NOT use with black powder!" I sent RCBS an email asking them what the issue is. When I get and answer I will post it.