The Odyssey and Iliad - new translations

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  • jon_norstog
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 3910

    #1

    The Odyssey and Iliad - new translations

    By Emily Wilson, professor of classical studies at the University of Pennsylvania. She is working off the oldest written material available, her translations are line-for-line in Iambic pentameter but in a pretty salty modern English. The Iliad begins with the conflict between Agamemnon and Achilles over respect and the possession of certain spoils of war, including especially the woman Briseis. Achilles is refusing to fight but the war goes on, lots of individual combat and the backstories of the various combatants, many of whom, including Achilles are demigods descended in part from gods or goddesses (for all the good it does them). At least half the book is, like the original oral material, graphic descriptions of hand-to-hand combat describing the weapons used and the damage done with them.

    When Hector starts coming out to fight, things start going south for the Greeks, but Achilles stays in his camp. Finally his partner, Patroclus, borrows armor and weapons to go out and meet the Trojans. Patroclus does pretty well until he goes up against Hector, who kills him. Achillles patches things up with Agamemnon, recovers his armor (IIRC) and in an epic fight, kills Hector. Then he defiles the corpse by dragging it around the walls of Troy behind his chariot, day after day. The gods intervene to prevent the corpse from rotting. At the end of the Story, old King Priam goes out alone at night to beg Achilles to return his son, Hector' body.

    There is no wooden horse, no sacking or troy or rape of the Trojan women, no flight to the west of Aeneas and the Trojan survivors in the remaining ships. It's a hell of a story.

    The Odyssey begins in media res when Odysseus' grown son, worried about the "suitors" who have taken over the palace takes ship, escapes really, visits old King Nestor for advice. There are flashbacks to Odysseus' story, his travels and how he lost everything, finally washing ashore on the island of Scheria, stark naked. The women take care of him, in the same way that Athena comes to his aid when he needs it. When he gets to his home, only his old dog recognizes him. He kills the fifty suitors as well as any of the serving-girls who might have slept with or been raped by them.

    I really got into the rhythm of the verse, letting it carry me on. Wilson doesn't pull any punches, and you really get a feeling for those people and what made them tick. Odysseus of the many-branched mind is (to me) by far the most interesting of those people. He met the gods and the spirits of the dead and contested with them - no9 divine powers, no magic, just his rational mind. He was the first modern man.

    I've been away from this site for a while, I wanted to put this review and a couple of others up here, especially for Art. I see is no longer with us. He would have had something to say about these stories.

    jn
    Last edited by jon_norstog; 03-24-2026, 10:50.
  • lyman
    Administrator - OFC
    • Aug 2009
    • 11309

    #2
    thanks for the review,


    we did an abbreviated discussion when I took Latin in High School, otherwise I have not read much about it, other than Where Brother Art Thou? very very loosely based on it,

    Comment

    • lyman
      Administrator - OFC
      • Aug 2009
      • 11309

      #3
      https://www.amazon.com/Odyssey-Homer/dp/0393089053

      Comment

      • jon_norstog
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 3910

        #4
        Both of these are worth reading. I've read the old standby versions, but these are WAY different, really raw and they give you a real look into the minds of the men who fought that war and sang about it afterward. Here we are, God is way up there and totally different from us, but for them, the gods could be anywhere and like as not dangerous to get involved in their business, and even worse when they got involved in the business of men.

        jn

        Comment

        • TSimonetti
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 306

          #5
          I give Wilson credit for her efforts. If her version gets more people to read it and enjoy it, then it was a great success. Her version, and Nolan's reliance on it for his film are certainly not without controversy, but it's probably the best we can hope for in Hollywood today. Wilson was eminently qualified to do it, and by many accounts produced something of a masterpiece. and that's what matters most. I read these ancient works in High School and it was a definite slog. I haven't read Wilson's version yet, but as someone who struggles reading the English of Cooper's "The Last of the Mohicans" I can appreciate anything that captures my attention and allows me to enjoy reading.

          Comment

          • lyman
            Administrator - OFC
            • Aug 2009
            • 11309

            #6
            Originally posted by TSimonetti
            I give Wilson credit for her efforts. If her version gets more people to read it and enjoy it, then it was a great success. Her version, and Nolan's reliance on it for his film are certainly not without controversy, but it's probably the best we can hope for in Hollywood today. Wilson was eminently qualified to do it, and by many accounts produced something of a masterpiece. and that's what matters most. I read these ancient works in High School and it was a definite slog. I haven't read Wilson's version yet, but as someone who struggles reading the English of Cooper's "The Last of the Mohicans" I can appreciate anything that captures my attention and allows me to enjoy reading.
            trailers have it looking like a good movie,
            some controversy on who is playing what etc etc, but overall Nolan does a good movie

            Comment

            • TSimonetti
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 306

              #7
              Originally posted by lyman

              trailers have it looking like a good movie,
              some controversy on who is playing what etc etc, but overall Nolan does a good movie
              Well there are some cringeworthy moments in the trailers too. Nobody should expect perfection or agree 100 percent on how the movie should be made, but as far as casting choices go, it's not clear yet if Nolan is just adhering to Academy DEI rules for main characters to create Oscar bait by hiring a black woman(Helen of deTroit), a 90 pound effeminate trans man, a black rapper, and an hispanic comedian/actor, or whether he is actually a woke kool aid drinker himself. It's certainly not malicious compliance on his part. He's doing it because he wants to.
              There are also reports that Nolan skimped on using authentic armor and is using some cheap knockoff stuff. At least the 2004 version of Troy got that right.
              Every director has a stinker. Was Nolan's stinker Tenet?, or will it be this one?

              I'll wait till it's free on demand to watch it, which might not be too far away.
              Last edited by TSimonetti; 05-13-2026, 03:31.

              Comment

              • jon_norstog
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2009
                • 3910

                #8
                Originally posted by TSimonetti
                I give Wilson credit for her efforts. If her version gets more people to read it and enjoy it, then it was a great success. Her version, and Nolan's reliance on it for his film are certainly not without controversy, but it's probably the best we can hope for in Hollywood today. Wilson was eminently qualified to do it, and by many accounts produced something of a masterpiece. and that's what matters most. I read these ancient works in High School and it was a definite slog. I haven't read Wilson's version yet, but as someone who struggles reading the English of Cooper's "The Last of the Mohicans" I can appreciate anything that captures my attention and allows me to enjoy reading.
                I second you on "Last of the Mohicans" it is virtually unreadable. Mark Twain held Cooper up as an example of bad writing, back in the day. The story is good and the movie with Daniel Day-Lewis and Wes Studi was GREAT. Wilson really got back to the source on her Odyssey and Iliad, using the oldest known written copies of what was already a centuries-old oral epic. She did her translation line-for-line and stuck to iambic pentameter all the way.

                Nikos Kazantzakis wrote a sequel to the Odyssey which his sidekick, Kimon Friar, translated into English. It is epic as hell.

                jn

                Comment

                • jon_norstog
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 3910

                  #9
                  Originally posted by TSimonetti

                  Well there are some cringeworthy moments in the trailers too. Nobody should expect perfection or agree 100 percent on how the movie should be made, but as far as casting choices go, it's not clear yet if Nolan is just adhering to Academy DEI rules for main characters to create Oscar bait by hiring a black woman(Helen of deTroit), a 90 pound effeminate trans man, a black rapper, and an hispanic comedian, or whether he is actually a woke kool aid drinker himself. It's certainly not malicious compliance on his part. He's doing it because he wants to.
                  There are also reports that Nolan skimped on using authentic armor and is using some cheap knockoff stuff. At least the 2004 version of Troy got that right.
                  Every director has a stinker. Was Nolan's stinker Tenet?, or will it be this one?

                  I'll wait till it's free on demand to watch it, which might not be too far away.
                  A pretty decent movie was the PBS Odyssey with Armand Assante as Odysseus and Isabella Rossellini as Athena. And a terrifying CGI as Poseidon.

                  jn

                  Comment

                  • lyman
                    Administrator - OFC
                    • Aug 2009
                    • 11309

                    #10
                    Originally posted by TSimonetti

                    Well there are some cringeworthy moments in the trailers too. Nobody should expect perfection or agree 100 percent on how the movie should be made, but as far as casting choices go, it's not clear yet if Nolan is just adhering to Academy DEI rules for main characters to create Oscar bait by hiring a black woman(Helen of deTroit), a 90 pound effeminate trans man, a black rapper, and an hispanic comedian/actor, or whether he is actually a woke kool aid drinker himself. It's certainly not malicious compliance on his part. He's doing it because he wants to.
                    There are also reports that Nolan skimped on using authentic armor and is using some cheap knockoff stuff. At least the 2004 version of Troy got that right.
                    Every director has a stinker. Was Nolan's stinker Tenet?, or will it be this one?

                    I'll wait till it's free on demand to watch it, which might not be too far away.
                    never thought of tenat as a stinker,
                    not a great movie, but not horrible,
                    one of those the more you watch, the more you get, kinda deals

                    Comment

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