The Free State of Jones

[jgaynor]

Interesting civil war film about a group of Mississippians who decide to secede from the confederacy. Well worth a watching.

[PhillipM]

Traitor
Adulterer
Murderer.

Thats all you need to know,about Knewt Knight.

[dave]

I kept seeing the previews on TV, they gave the date but I never saw what channel it was on, so I missed it. Wanted to watch it.

[PhillipM]

I kept seeing the previews on TV, they gave the date but I never saw what channel it was on, so I missed it. Wanted to watch it.

It's not on TV, it's iin theaters.

[jgaynor]

Traitor
Adulterer
Murderer.

Thats,all you need to know,about Knew Knight.

I had never heard about Knight's Company despite being born in Hattiesburg and and visiting from time to time over the years. Still and all an interesting piece of history, warts and all.

[PhillipM]

I had never heard about Knight's Company despite being born in Hattiesburg and and visiting from time to time over the years. Still and all an interesting piece of history, warts and all.

I'm from the central part of the state and had never heard of Newt coming up, but I we old hear from time to time about Jones county being called the free state of jones, so I researched it myself. A friend of mine sent me this message the other day.

He and his followers were against the "rich man's war": if you owned a certain number of slaves you weren't drafted. Plus he married a "yellow woman", Rachel, he didn't like how non-whites were treated. He is my wife's great great grand uncle, something she has to conceal in certain circles to this day. She is actually nervous about this movie coming out and has asked me not to make it very public that her grandmother used to talk about bouncing on Newt Knight's knee as a little girl!

[blackhawknj]

People have heard about the Copperheads, little has been written about opposition to the Confederacy down South.

[PhillipM]

People have heard about the Copperheads, little has been written about opposition to the Confederacy down South.

The first time I heard copperheads, that I can recall, was while watching the Netflix series 'Hell on Wheels'

[Art]

People have heard about the Copperheads, little has been written about opposition to the Confederacy down South.

....which was much more extensive than some would think, especially in primarily German parts of the South. My father's family in New Orleans were virulently anti secession, anti slavery, and felt that the war was promoted by people whose interests they did not share on many issues. They were Germans of Alsatian extraction and once the city of New Orleans came under union occupation actively went to work for the occupation government. One of my great, great, grand uncles by marriage, a river pilot, worked diligently ferrying supplies to the Union Army during the Red River Campaign. At Yellow Bayou he was almost surely shot at by soldiers of the 21st Texas Cavalry which included a great, great, grand uncle on my mother's side.

it wasn't "clean" and a lot of history was actively suppressed by people on both ends of the "argument" after the fact.

A good many southerners, and not just border state men fought for the Union and the reverse is true of northerners fighting for the South. A fact brought home to me a year ago when we visited the cemitary at Andersonville.

[PhillipM]

I recall reading in 'That Devil, Forrest' that Forrest happened upon a Union blockhouse, whatever that was, commanded by a German.

He sent a man down under white flag to give his pat surrender or else letter, and I forget what the Germans reply was, but it was vulgar. Forrest had his artillery brought up from over the ridge and pounded the blockhouse to bits, and the German waved a white flag. When asked if they should stop the attack, Forrest said I don't see a white flag, I doubt I could see a bedsheets at this distance. I can't remember if he stopped shelling them before they were all killed or not.

[PhillipM]

Art,

I messaged a teacher friend of mine with German ancestry your post and received back a slew of interesting facts.

The very first anti-slavery protests, even in New England, were led by German immigrants. German protestants were very much against the institution of slavery, it was an English (won't say British since Scots, Welsh, and Irlanders were victims of this in ancient history) were the main ones promoting slavery. If I were to win the lottery tomorrow I would devote my time to writing a history as to how the US Civil War was really a continuation of the War of Independence, the War of 1812, etc. The UK supported the Confederacy to try to overthrow the US Federal government, they weren't over that whole 1776 thing yet. As late as the 1900s the US War College (West Point) was war-gaming about the next "world war" which would be between the USA and the UK!

The civil war was a proxy war between the USA and the UK just as the Vietnam War was a proxy war between the USA and the USSR and China.

You're welcome. If I could only find funding to be a historian I think my book on this would be a great seller, I have not found anyone who has written something on this although MANY have cited that the UK both supported the CSA and that the US war colleges considered the UK to be the "enemy" up to and including during WW1 until the US sheeple were convinced to enter that war.

The UK was the only other "World Power" besides the USA up to and including 1916-1917. Given our history of hostility with the UK, it was only natural that the USA considered them to be the most natural adversary and wargamed, to use a modern term, against them appropriately.

[Art]

Phillip

When speaking of the 19th century British Empire one must remember that the single most powerful social pressure group in the U.K. was the anti-slavery movement. Any politician who bucked it after the 1820s did so at his political peril. The queen herself opposed slavery and as a young queen, in 1838, accepted a petition signed by 500,000 English women and 130,000 Scottish women stating their opposition to the institution and advocating its abolition world wide. When "Chinese" Gordon" abolished slavery in the Sudan by force (though his reforms did not survive his time as Governor General) he became a national hero. Because of that alone the Brits would never have intervened openly on the side of the Confederacy in the "War Between the States."

Now the Brits could indeed be positively nefarious. The Opium war which was fought purely to protect the Brit interest in the Opium trade in China is probably the most notorious example. So while the Brits had no problem with war profiteering through trade with the South anything beyond that was political suicide. If the Confederacy had prevailed I am certain, almost mathematically certain, that the Brits would have condemned them publically while continuing to trade with them. I mean a pound's a pound...right.

[dave]

The people of Arkansas were given a vote on weather to succeed or not, they voted not to. But the powers that be, all rich, land and slave owners, passed to do it anyway.

[blackhawknj]

West Virginia seceded from Virginia because the people of the Kanawha Valley refused to accept the vote of the General Assembly in Richmond to secede from the Union, there was considerable pro-Union sentiment in Eastern Tennessee. Like several of the German settlements in Texas refused to accept it.
There is a letter from Sherman to Stanton in which Sherman says "I am no friend of the Negro" but he acknowledges that the government's Emancipation policy has raised a whole host of allies for the Union .

[S.A. Boggs]

Phillip

When speaking of the 19th century British Empire one must remember that the single most powerful social pressure group in the U.K. was the anti-slavery movement. Any politician who bucked it after the 1820s did so at his political peril. The queen herself opposed slavery and as a young queen, in 1838, accepted a petition signed by 500,000 English women and 130,000 Scottish women stating their opposition to the institution and advocating its abolition world wide. When "Chinese" Gordon" abolished slavery in the Sudan by force (though his reforms did not survive his time as Governor General) he became a national hero. Because of that alone the Brits would never have intervened openly on the side of the Confederacy in the "War Between the States."

Now the Brits could indeed be positively nefarious. The Opium war which was fought purely to protect the Brit interest in the Opium trade in China is probably the most notorious example. So while the Brits had no problem with war profiteering through trade with the South anything beyond that was political suicide. If the Confederacy had prevailed I am certain, almost mathematically certain, that the Brits would have condemned them publically while continuing to trade with them. I mean a pound's a pound...right.

Too bad England forgot about their slaves in Erie.
Sam