The Silence on this forum is Deafening RE: Ken Burns' VIETNAM

[Griff Murphey]

I imagine the vast majority here either served in Vietnam or served during Vietmam. Seems like nobody wants to comment. Most of the Veterans I have talked to are at best lukewarm about it. I must admit the piece I saw on our local PBS station was not reassuring. Burns described the shooting of that VC who had just killed a family as an "Assassination." That said so far I have found episodes 1 and 2 informative. I was in 7th grade when JFK was assassinated and took part in the Vietnam and Cambodian evac ops as a navy dentist with 1st Bn 4th Marines. I was 25...IMG_0649.jpg I had 7 years of Army ROTC and had been run through a lot of training about Vietnam and had really thought I had missed it.

There are many people better qualified than myself to offer an opinion on this series. What are your thoughts?

[S.A. Boggs]

This series is a little left of center as Burns is a National Socialist. That VC that was executed was not shot in the usual sense. As the Chief of Police who shot him said, 'Buddha" will understand. Killing is never pleasant unless you are a sociopath, it is often necessary! Personally the VC got off easy considered what the Oriental mind is capable of.
Sam

[bruce]

Have responded to other threads on this topic. Have not had much interest in Burns work since The Civil War. JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.

[Roadkingtrax]

It's been good so far, but I don't have political slant obscuring and inhibiting my appreciation of objective historical facts.

[Dan Shapiro]

Not interested in what the left has to say.........so don't watch.

[barretcreek]

Never having owned a television, I couldn't watch. I like to point out, when I was around a t.v., I never went channel surfing to find "The Apprentice" either.

[clintonhater]

Not interested in what the left has to say.........so don't watch.

Can't "allow" for the left-wing bias? Then you must isolate yourself from all media (except crackpots like Rush), because it's pervasive. Recognize & dismiss it, but at the same time glean whatever valid info is presented--such as the personal perspectives of Vietnamese North & South. The incredible incompetence of the successive S. Vietnamese huntas, compared to the absolute commitment & dedication of the North, is no creation, sadly, of left-wing slant.

Hardest thing for me to watch is the anti-war demonstrators--my fantasy is using a flame-thrower on them.

[dryheat]

Coincidentally, I am reading The Gun by C.J. Chivers. With some background on the Gatlin and Maxim in the beginning, it delves into the development of the AK-47 and type 56. Then elaborates on the debacle that was the introduction of the M-16. The problems that the rifle had were covered up in a determined way. From the top down everyone that benefited politically or monetarily joined the secret society that outright denied the rifles had problems and covered up anything to the contrary.

[Griff Murphey]

Coincidentally, I am reading The Gun by C.J. Chivers. With some background on the Gatlin and Maxim in the beginning, it delves into the development of the AK-47 and type 56. Then elaborates on the debacle that was the introduction of the M-16. The problems that the rifle had were covered up in a determined way. From the top down everyone that benefited politically or monetarily joined the secret society that outright denied the rifles had problems and covered up anything to the contrary.

I think it's an interesting book. As for his suggestion we would have been better off having an AK copy that seems a bit far fetched but he is probably right. The M-14 would have been a great rifle in the desert or in Europe, but I think he is right about it being too heavy and clumsy for Vietnam.

[Clark Howard]

The first three episodes have been mostly factual. The military has been portrayed as foolish boobs, forgetting, (or avoiding) the fact that we were under orders. The murder of Col. Dewey in 1945 was attributed to the Viet Minh, when it has been established that the Brits killed him on purpose. The idea that the war was unwinnable is reinforced every few minutes. The fact that Johnson fractured our effort and piece-mealed our forces, preventing the defeat of the North Vietnamese is politely skirted. I expect the whole series to turn out as cover for the perfidy and treason of the dems in power at the time, and Teddy. Regards, Clark

[clintonhater]

The M-14 would have been a great rifle in the desert or in Europe, but I think he is right about it being too heavy and clumsy for Vietnam.

Which was why it was replaced. But speaking of heavy and clumsy, there's at least one early photo of an ARVN soldier, weighing not much over 100lbs it appeared, shouldering a M1 rifle; an M1 or M2 carbine would seem a better choice for jungle fighting before M16s became available. Another photo shows what I think was supposed to be a VC aiming an '03 Springfield, and I don't mean 03A3! One problem with most historical documentaries is that they mix up photos taken in different decades because the photo editors are too ignorant to know better; what they could at least do is insert an approximate date into the corner of every photo or film clip.

[Clark Howard]

The ground forces in all four corps captured many, many, USGI weapons all through the war. The communist nations recycled every small arm they recovered, no matter its source. It seems that the VC and the NVA were amply supplied by the South Vietnam government and the ARVN. Our government has a history of arming countries that later prove to be our enemies. I once reported orange 50 cal tracers chasing my aircraft instead of commie green. The intel officer said the enemy had access to our weapons and ammo. Regards, Clark

[dave]

Taking nothing away from the vets who were there, it was a war we had no good reason to get into!

[Former Cav]

I have not watched it yet, but I WILL watch it as I am recording it on the DVR machine.

I can tell you that my tour of duty was no FUN. BUt I can also tell you that AFTER I got out of the Army, that is when the "Total SCR*WING" began.
Below is a response to a guy who wanted his son or other kid to receive a response to his question.

Names have been changed to protect the "innocent and the guilty as well"
I deleted the veterans groups that this was sent on as it was a "private sign in type group" where you had to have someone vouch for you BEFORE you could join.

HERe it is. Start at the bottom and read up. My response is immediately below this line.



________________________________________
From:vietnam@xxx.com On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:28 AM
To:
Subject: RE: Question About WINTER SOLDIER Hearings...

Mac,
I wasn’t with John Kerry (thankfully) so I can’t testify as to what he did do or did not do. I can tell you that where I was and the unit I was with did not commit any atrocities that I know of. Our daily schedule went something like this… Arise at 4 or 5 AM…if you arose in peace you had a chance to grab some c-rats, it you arose by being attacked ….forget about those c-rats….go like hell all day long….hump them boonies for days on end and never see another human being (thankfully) or if you did see another they were usually shooting at you. Again if it were a relatively non-combat day….eat some c-rats on top of the tank while doing a search and destroy. React to another unit who needs help…etc etc. Set up a night defensive position at dusk….now…even though we were an armored unit….if we were in war zones c or d or any other “bad” area, we’d actually dig in what we called “fighting positions” and to the grunt it was known as the good old fox hole. If we were lucky enough to not have to dig in, you’d have maybe 5 or 10 minutes before dark to write a note home. I used to use the box top of the c-rat box as a post card as a lot of times I did not have the luxury of stationery as it was on my last tank or apc which got blown away. So now it is dark, so you get to go out on an ambush patrol or a listening post. If you didn’t do that and stayed with the perimeter, then you got to pull guard duty for one or two hours. Whatever time was left over you got to sleep. That been said….now let me ask your son…..when did I have time to commit all these rapes and killings? My 2nd question to him is “where” were all these women that I was supposedly raping? I really can’t recall seeing too many women out in the jungle. We were pounding the bush most of the time. Sometimes we’d run a road at night to keep it from being mined…….again….where were all these women? Where were all the children that we supposedly killed?
Did John Kerry’s activities after he got out effect me? Definitely! I was literally harassed out of my first drafting job as my boss would ask me every morning “how did it feel to kill all those innocent women and children?” Back in 1971/2 they did not have “hostile work environment” rules! After about 4-1/2 months of this crap and nobody would even have a cup of coffee with me…the boss came up to me with his usual speel.. I told him “it felt absolutely great and you are next on my list…let’s go out into the parking lot and I will fix things right now!” Well he walked away with a big red face. A week later we had a factory shut down for inventory and I went looking for a job. The following Monday when I was to return to work….I did NOT, I called and said I’m not coming back. Did this affect me and my wife and my 2 year old son? Absolutely….they liked to eat like anyone else. I was lucky I still had my part time job from when I was going to school to be a draftsmen immediately before I got this crummy job.
After this….I was very selective as to who I told I was a vietnam veteran or not. It wasn’t until 1989 (20 years after I got out) that I “crawled out of the closet” and admitted to being a veteran.
I was treated like xxxx for 35 years at the Minneapolis VA as well.
In my humble opinion, Kerry and others like him did a lot of damage to a lot of innocent folks who already had enough bull chit to deal with in their lives. If anyone asked me about my fused knee on my left leg (it does not bend…that is from an RPG hit on my 3rd and last tank) I told them I got it in a car accident. I lost my left eye with a bb gun incident when I was a kid (that was from the first RPG that hit the tank) So now I was a liar as well ! After you tell one lie….eventually you have to tell another lie to cover up the first lie. It sucks to be a liar!
I was very mistreated and discriminated against a good part of my lifetime but I never bitched about it like all these minorities do. All these minorities and fringe groups have all these special privileges. In Minneapolis, they have a gay rights parade.. Tell me….when is the last time they had a combat veterans parade? How about NEVER!
I have a friend who is a Minnesota state trooper as well as being a Vietnam vet. He told me to get rid of my purple heart license plates (this was 1990 or there abouts). I asked why. He said I am a target as police will figure I am a drunk that just came out of a legion or VFW club. I got rid of the plates and sure as hell, I quit getting pulled over. What a good deal this is….right? So there are still people out there that hate veterans!
You can tell your son for me….I have 3 purple hearts and 2 of them are from schrapnel wounds from RPGs the other is from a homemade VC grenade. I never shot, killed, raped, or mistreated any women or child. I did shoot and kill whoever was shooting at me or who ever had just killed some of my best friends.
I have a “memoir” of sorts that I wrote a long time ago and I do not wish to make it public. If you want your son to see it, email me back channel and give me your email address and I will email it to you. I can tell you that it sucks because it deals with being in a hospital after getting shot up as well. It is not really a “fun read” nor was it a “fun life”.
Sincerely
Cav (the other Bob)



________________________________________
From:
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 5:26 AM
To:
Subject: Re: Question About WINTER SOLDIER Hearings...

Mac,

Don't know of a specific site but I know they are out there and some of the members will, I am sure. Have you suggested that your son talk one to one with a few people that were actually in Viet Nam? Face to face talking is a powerful way to learn.

M

her@xxxxx.net> wrote:
OUr son has decided that Kerry and the others at the Winter Soldiers
Hearing spoke nothing but the truth.
I stated that several of those who were there and testified turned out
not to have been in the Service; and those who were, many were
stationed elsewhere than Vietnam; and several who claimed a direct
knowledge/participation in alleged atrocities were stationed NOT where
they claimed.
I mentioned that Senator Mark Hatfield requested an investigation and
the result of that was, as above.
Unfortunately, our son is under the sway of "The Drunken Philosopher"
who preaches a wonderful game but does not practice what he asks
others to do... this character claims Vietnam was rediculous, that it
was criminal... etc., etc.
You get the picture.

would any of you have some site where I might obtain specific

[John Sukey]

Ask the Swift boat veterans what they think of Kerry!