Another bad day for the military.

[TomSudz]

In reality the use of hollow point ammo is not outlawed by the Hague convention or any other for that matter. Exposed lead in any form is, like a soft point but an HP that has no lead showing is not banned at all. In fact the military has been using HP ammo now mostly in sniper rifles.

JAG might tend to have a different opinion. In '06 we spent several weeks not being able to use M188LR ammo because a JAG thought that the open tip was a hollow point. It took personnel from the AMU at Benning to come to Iraq and explain/demonstrate that the open tip IS NOT a hollow point and DOES NOT have anything to do with the expansion of the round as a hollow point does and a review of a previous JAG determination to clear up the problem. The open tip has everything to do with accuracy and nothing to do with expansion. While the Hague Convention does not prohibit "hollow point" bullets, it does prohibit expanding tip bullets, which we commonly refer to as hollow points.

[Tuna]

Yes but also remember we are NOT a signee of the Hague Convention. While we have observed it we have not signed it. And in fact the military has already signed off on the use of the Hollow Point ammo as a standard issue as long as there is no observable lead exposed. It does appear to be a very thick jacket on it and it will aid in the accuracy of the round. But I am wondering about the new ball ammo they keep talking about. I wonder if it's like the one I think Federal developed where it is not a hollow point but it does expand when it hits the target. This one they are having problems with in the new pistol.

[Art]

This pistol buying is political in the worst sense of the word.

Though I have owned several M1911 pistols and still shoot them; I am not a huge fan of the M1911 pistol. I believe it is somewhat outdated today. However, nobody is going to win a war today because they have a better pistol. Buying a bazillion new pistols every time the old lot gets some age on it is wasteful and unnecessary. If the Army had converted existing stocks of M1911 pistols to 9mm and bought new ones as the old ones wore out they'd have saved the taxpayers a lot of money now and in the future with no real fall off in the performance of the average guy with a pistol.

On the size question there are a bunch of pistols designed for the 9mm cartridge that to me are oversize for the cartridge, the late departed M9 pistol and the CZ75, both good weapons come to mind.

On the subject of personally owned weapons - our son is one of the many who wished he could carry a personally owned handgun on his trips to the sandbox and his TO&E allowed him to carry an M4 Carbine and an M9 pistol.

[Allen]

Think of all the taxpayer money wasted on changing from the 1911 to the M9, all the testing and research, now the Sig which has problems. They could have just stayed with the 1911 till something better, more reliable, stronger, simpler, lighter and cheaper came along, which will probably never happen. Parts for the 1911 are plentiful and cheap too.

[clintonhater]

Think of all the taxpayer money wasted on changing from the 1911 to the M9, all the testing and research, now the Sig which has problems.

Sure doesn't seem proportional to military needs, given the rare situations in which they are used. But, got to keep that old military-industrial complex well oiled with tax money.