Amtrak

[Allen]

Is there a day that goes by where Amtrak doesn't kill someone?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/south-carolina-train-crash-leaves-least-2-dead-115645912.html

[leftyo]

it does seem they are involved in quite few incidents lately.

[Dan Shapiro]

Just wait until Moonbeam Brown gets his "bullet train".

[clintonhater]

Just wait until Moonbeam Brown gets his "bullet train".

The Japs (who I think first developed them) have been running them for decades and love them. They've been copied in France & Germany, where they're also hugely successful. Now the Chinese are building what will be the longest high-speed tracks in the world, with the fastest trains. Why can't the same be done in this country? Many reasons, from tolerating engineers who play with their cells or smoke dope (either would warrant a death sentence in China!) to antiquated tracks & road-beds. Now, instead of upgrading our Third World rail infrastructure, there's momentum building to finance another manned moon trip--billions will be wasted for...what? How was your life improved by previous moon landings? Maybe I'm crazy, but I think I might get a little more use out of a fast & safe rail service.

[Allen]

The Japs (who I think first developed them) have been running them for decades and love them. They've been copied in France & Germany, where they're also hugely successful. Now the Chinese are building what will be the longest high-speed tracks in the world, with the fastest trains. Why can't the same be done in this country? Many reasons, from tolerating engineers who play with their cells or smoke dope (either would warrant a death sentence in China!) to antiquated tracks & road-beds. Now, instead of upgrading our Third World rail infrastructure, there's momentum building to finance another manned moon trip--billions will be wasted for...what? How was your life improved by previous moon landings? Maybe I'm crazy, but I think I might get a little more use out of a fast & safe rail service.

While I agree with you I feel much of Amtrak's problems are caused by Amtrak. I myself had a close encounter with an Amtrak train. Our current RR infrastructure is fine for cargo trains that drive the speed limits and creep around tight curves and through crowded cities. The Amtrak engineers seem to think no laws apply to them and fly thru cities at 70mph and 150mph or so on the straight-a-ways. These old rails and sometimes wooden trestles just weren't designed to handle such.

As far as the moon goes I can see setting up a missile base there at the most but we do have bigger and more important fish to fry.

[clintonhater]

The Amtrak engineers seem to think no laws apply to them and fly thru cities at 70mph and 150mph or so on the straight-a-ways. These old rails and sometimes wooden trestles just weren't designed to handle such.

THAT'S the problem! Can't run 21st C. high-speed trains on 19th C. tracks!

How 'bout we end the wars in Afghan & Iraq (or start another one in Ukraine) before building missile bases on the moon?

[RED]

Come on guys you are all full of it. I got the following from a UP Railroad Engineer with 20 years experience.

1.The CSX freight train was stopped and unmanned.

2. The Amtrak was on the wrong track.

3. There was a "signal suppression" in effect (they were off).

4. A rail or a switch could have broken.

5. Under a signal suppression, their speed was likely to be less than 49MPH.

[Allen]

They always have a reason for wrecking but the simple fact is: they do wreck and cost lives.

As stated before, I have had first hand experience seeing how they operate. Back when I worked and back when Amtrak traveled our states in this region I never saw Amtrak going a moderate or slow speed. 70mph+ through towns and cities is too fast for any kind of vehicle that has practically no brakes. Every morning that I worked I had to pass over the tracks. The cross over has two cross arms covering 3 lanes of traffic each way. There is a metal terminal building within 100' of the interchange that is a blind but the cargo trains creep and sometimes add cars here so never a problem. One particular morning as I was going to work, with the "all clear", I crossed through and noticed Amtrak was barreling down on me, the front of the engine was even with the closest edge of the building, so within 100'. After seeing me on the tracks the engineer THEN sounded the horn. The train was going so fast that 2 or 3 cars (including the engine) had made it through before the cross arms could flash, alarm, and start moving down. The train missed the rear of my car by only 2 or 3 feet and I wasn't poking along. This is a 6 lane highway on the edge of town---very well traveled. I can rarely say this but: "I was there".

There are hundreds of trains that travel constantly every day. Wrecks happen but are rare compared to Amtrak. Has to be something going on.

[Griff Murphey]

My wife and I like Amtrak - it's the only affordable rail travel available in the USA as far as long haul scenic rides and the fun of dining and having a few beverages as the country rolls by.

As a rail buff I wonder if the problem in part is that railroads don't own the passenger trains. The government owned passenger trains are traveling on rails they don't own... That is I think an issue. No corporate pride involved....

[JB White]

Allen, I too experienced a near miss but not quite as close. Not Amtrak but a CP freight. About 1:00 am I was making a crossing when I noticed one set of lights blinking but the gates were up and dark. My car window was down and I heard the rumble so I chose to stop. A car coming the other way sped through the crossing and was narrowly missed the same as you. Only after the second loco was through the crossing did things light up and the gates come down. A call to the town PD got me a woman on the line (assuming a "civilian" employee) saying I should contact the railroad. "WHAT?? No! I called you. Why not get a cop out here with a marked car to watch traffic while you call the railroad. Got their number? Then get it because I surely don't!"

As far as brakes are concerned, I know for a fact they have brakes. On a millwright call I worked on a brake testing dyno. Simulated braking to the equivalent of a two mile long freight. As you said though.."practically" no brakes for all intended purposes and you're right.

Car brakes vs. truck brakes. Sure trucks have better brakes because they have to. Doesn't mean a 40,000 pound truck can stop as quickly as a 3,000 pound car. Trains have MUCH better brakes than trucks and look how long it takes them to stop. I use that analogy when coaching kids who think they can pull in front of a moving semi because "Trucks have better brakes" as their not-so-genius friends have told them.

[Allen]

Perhaps a better term would have been "takes a long distance to stop all that weight especially at high speeds" but I was trying to keep it brief.

My father was hit by a train. He was in his brand new (at the time) 1947 Chevrolet. The car stalled while crossing the tracks and would not restart quick enough. I guess he didn't have time to run from the car. Perhaps there was no cross arms or other warnings, maybe he was trying to beat the train. This time I wasn't there. He was not injured but the train slid him sideways for about a mile before it could stop.

[dryheat]

I have never understood how people "stall" on the tracks and manage to get hit by a train. Just a a story; when I was in jr. high the school bus we were in was approaching the tracks. The coal train traveled it a couple of times a day. We were about to cross in front of a moving train when one kid spoke up: Bus driver, are you going to stop! The driver slammed on the brakes and swerved into a snowbank. That kid might have saved our lives. Inattention causes a lot of accidents.

[clintonhater]

...maybe he was trying to beat the train.

You think?

[RED]

One reason for the recent train crashes is the amount of training required to drive a train. An airline pilot is well trained and it takes months and years to have enough training and experience to sit in the Captains chair in a commercial airliner. Yep, a airline pilot makes more money but there is a bigger demand for them and they should be paid a lot, but the truth is the RR engineer undergoes weeks of training... not years and receives almost as much (90%) money.

The airliner pilot has spent 1,000's of hours in the co-pilot's seat. There ain't no co-pilot on a railroad train.

But with that being said, the real problem with railroads is the unions. There is a us versus them relationship that is poisonous. The RR companies work the ass off their employees. Long hours, always on call, no set work hours, that destroys family life, and the unions actually promote and sustain the abuse.

Talk to a real down to earth honest Engineer and he hates the union and fully understands why the company does what it does. Too many RR guys are afraid to buck the unions and are scared they would lose their $50+/hour job.

[ray55classic]

Trains have some pretty efficient air brakes but when you consider that most rail cars whether a flatbed , a boxcar , tanker or gondola have a 100 ton [200,000lb] carrying capacity ,
add in the weight of the cars themselves , add the locomotives weight , steel wheels on steel tracks and trains at times miles long
it's a wonder they can stop at all with that much mass moving at speed.