Expert oponion

[Jiminvirginia]

An expert is someone who knows when they need help.

Think about that for awhile.

[Dolt]

Just what qualifies a person to be an "expert" on anything?
Sam

An expert is not someone who knows the subject exhaustively. Rather, it is someone who knows where to find the answers to the subject that he and others seek.

[Duane Hansen]

An expert is not someone who knows the subject exhaustively. Rather, it is someone who knows where to find the answers to the subject that he and others seek.

I totally agree. Several years ago l taught a class on Plumbing Code in our local apprenticeship program. I personally believe that no one can know the complete plumbing code in any given area. So l approached the class with the idea that it would be much more realistic to teach the students how to find the answers to their plumbing questions rather than trying to memorize a book of facts and figures.

[SwampRatt]

Hmm, an Ex is a hasbeen and a spurt is a drip under pressure.

[dryheat]

And that means...
Don't ever say that again.

[clintonhater]

An expert is not someone who knows the subject exhaustively. Rather, it is someone who knows where to find the answers to the subject that he and others seek.

The exact job-description of an old-fashioned Reference Librarian. They're mostly extinct today, superseded by Google & similar platforms, but not much needed anymore--anybody with an I-Phone & some internet familarity can do as much. So I guess, according to this definition, the status of expert is not the life-achievement I once took it to be--decades of experience leading to perfection of skills isn't necessary, if you know who or where to ask.

[JB White]

You're assigning a meaning to "master" that's not traditional, if it can ONLY mean experience in every conceivable work a carpenter might be asked to do. If that's the bar that must be cleared, then there can't be "masters" in any craft. What it traditionally meant is the attainment of a high--but not impossibly high-- degree of professional competence, as judged by others in the profession.

In my area, the term used for a well experienced carpenter in his/her particular fields is, "good mechanic". Use the word "master" and you have just shot your own reputation to hell and back.

[clintonhater]

In my area, the term used for a well experienced carpenter in his/her particular fields is, "good mechanic". Use the word "master" and you have just shot your own reputation to hell and back.

Well, what ever happened to the traditional system of apprentice-journeyman-master? It guaranteed a predictable level of proficiency in any craft or trade, with papers to prove it.

[M1Tommy]

What with all this talk of expert this, that and the other. Look I got TWO BS de-grees, one in computer science and one in mechanical engineering, and over 30 years engineering work experience. What does that mean? It means that my time growing up in the sticks, on farms that grew mostly rocks, and then spending all my spare time for 4 years in the high school agri-shop, was more valuable than my degrees!

Below, after turning what should have been a half hour job into a 5-6 hour project.......a ditty that I sent to my son, a USAF F-16 crew chief. I dared him to put that up in his shop.................

Tommy

imagine parts.jpg

[Art]

When I was an LEO I was cautioned to be very careful on ever giving an "expert" opinion. If you are an "expert," at least in court, if you are ever wrong you can be discredited forever. Everybody in my agency was required to be "proficient in the Spanish language." We were cautioned about ever claiming we were "fluent," because if we did any error in Spanish we made in reports or testimony would be used to impeach us. I and a lot of other agents at times underwent informal Spanish language tests on the witness stand. If we flubbed up, which almost never happened we would ball back on the defense that we were only "proficient" and not "fluent;" fluency being the equivalent of "expert" in language.

[Vern Humphrey]

Well, what ever happened to the traditional system of apprentice-journeyman-master? It guaranteed a predictable level of proficiency in any craft or trade, with papers to prove it.

We did away with it. We used to have standards, so when you asked "What is a master electrician?" the answer was to refer to the standards.

Our education system no longer has "trade schools" -- or not many. The education system is run by academics, who look down on people who work with their hands. There's no reason a kid can't graduate from high school certified as a journeyman electrician, carpenter, auto mechanic, etc. The nation would be better for it.

- - - Updated - - -

When I was an LEO I was cautioned to be very careful on ever giving an "expert" opinion. If you are an "expert," at least in court, if you are ever wrong you can be discredited forever. Everybody in my agency was required to be "proficient in the Spanish language." We were cautioned about ever claiming we were "fluent," because if we did any error in Spanish we made in reports or testimony would be used to impeach us. I and a lot of other agents at times underwent informal Spanish language tests on the witness stand. If we flubbed up, which almost never happened we would ball back on the defense that we were only "proficient" and not "fluent;" fluency being the equivalent of "expert" in language.

Interesting -- I had a friend who was on the witness stand and the lawyer questioned his ability to see what he had seen and asked him to read something he held at some distance. The friend said, "Your Honor, if I am to undergo an eye test, I would like it administered by a registered optician."

[S.A. Boggs]

Now for part two of my question:
Fact checker seem now to be in vogue, Why? What give these people the ability to give "superior" opinion not fact? MSM these days seem to be full of people telling us the "truth" which is often biased, only based in their reality. What gives?
Sam

[JB White]

Well, what ever happened to the traditional system of apprentice-journeyman-master? It guaranteed a predictable level of proficiency in any craft or trade, with papers to prove it.

It's apprentice-journeyman, and that's only after 18 years of age. (Insurance and safety etc.). Most trades I'm aware of require a minimum of a high school diploma or GED before being considered for apprentice training. Apprenticeships vary between 4 and 6 years depending upon the trade and qualifications for licensing.
Apprentices can fast track with previous skills and training is some cases. Once they've completed their combination of schooling and on-the-job, along with passing their tests and have enough hours logged for both, only then do they make the grade to journeyman.
Once a journeyman that's it. Additional training and cross training may be required to obtain and renew certifications. The more certs and current training, the more jobs you can "journey" to.

Any additional titles are lead man, crew foreman, site foreman or general foreman, etc and various forms of superintendent if the current employer sees fit. As a journeyman one may be in charge of running a project only to be back working in the mud on the next one. Then any aforementioned position again thereafter if offered or applied for. Never in my career (retired now) was the title "master" ever part of the lexicon. Not unless it was a joke. Those who claimed it became a joke.
Once a journeyman always a journeyman. Different titles typically means extra pay to go along with the added responsibilities, but your card still says journeyman.

More recently the term certified/advanced journeyman (along with some similar titles) is being used to describe an individual who has continued his education above and beyond most.

[IditarodJoe]

Sounds like it varies by state. I recall when a good friend in Michigan got his Master Plumber License back in the '70s. It was a really big deal for him. JB, here's a link to the State of Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulation web page describing the licensing requirements. https://www.michigan.gov/lara/0,4601...2835--,00.html

[M1Tommy]

Arkansas has varying grades of (supposed ... grin) competency for some trades, e.g. "Master Plumber".

It does vary by state.
Tommy