Covid 19

[PWC]

Local news said there were families with members in assisted care in Colo. Who died during this crisis. They were told the causes of death were other than COVID19, but when they got the death certificates, the cause of death was changed by the health dept (local or state unknown) to COVID.
Who and how would benefit from this?

I used to go to the CDC website (search COVID19 cases in US) because the media reporting was all over the place (always higher stats than the CDC). Then the CDC stated they were reporting projected cases/deaths and they included non-COVID reports. I assume they meant flu or other resperatory causes.

So, what have we learned different, prevention wise, from this "super flu" that is X times more contageous than the regular flu? Dr.s have always said wash hands frequently, keep hands away from your eyes, nose, mouth and face. Stay away from others who are sick. (Wow! Social distancing!) Personally, during flu season, we have always stayed away from grand children going to those germ factories called schools. Social distancing has been proven to work.

So, now this fall flu season, I expect a resurgence of this flu or what ever flavor of flu comes along. Can we, as a nation of people, follow the simple health rules espoused for years, and keep the economy and our way of life on an even keel, or are we going to have the gov't force draconian health measures on us that cripple our country? We have the right to expect the gov't to take the necessary steps to ensure the country has what is needed to meet an emergency that threatens this country.

Sorry for being so long, but it seems to me, the way to prevent was always available. Treatment, well, that is a different matter. Next time, if we as a people can't exercise the required self restraint, and resist the media Pulitzer prize winner wanna-be's, and political hype, we can expect the gov't to do it for us.

[S.A. Boggs]

Local news said there were families with members in assisted care in Colo. Who died during this crisis. They were told the causes of death were other than COVID19, but when they got the death certificates, the cause of death was changed by the health dept (local or state unknown) to COVID.
Who and how would benefit from this?

I used to go to the CDC website (search COVID19 cases in US) because the media reporting was all over the place (always higher stats than the CDC). Then the CDC stated they were reporting projected cases/deaths and they included non-COVID reports. I assume they meant flu or other resperatory causes.

So, what have we learned different, prevention wise, from this "super flu" that is X times more contageous than the regular flu? Dr.s have always said wash hands frequently, keep hands away from your eyes, nose, mouth and face. Stay away from others who are sick. (Wow! Social distancing!) Personally, during flu season, we have always stayed away from grand children going to those germ factories called schools. Social distancing has been proven to work.

So, now this fall flu season, I expect a resurgence of this flu or what ever flavor of flu comes along. Can we, as a nation of people, follow the simple health rules espoused for years, and keep the economy and our way of life on an even keel, or are we going to have the gov't force draconian health measures on us that cripple our country? We have the right to expect the gov't to take the necessary steps to ensure the country has what is needed to meet an emergency that threatens this country.

Sorry for being so long, but it seems to me, the way to prevent was always available. Treatment, well, that is a different matter. Next time, if we as a people can't exercise the required self restraint, and resist the media Pulitzer prize winner wanna-be's, and political hype, we can expect the gov't to do it for us.

This scares me worse then any virus!
Sam

[togor]

What happened in NYC, NJ, Northern Italy, Wuhan, Iran, etc., was no "just like a bad case of flu" situation. So hopefully people have wrapped their head around that much at least. This virus kills at a significant rate, and most people haven't encountered it yet.

Why do people form governments? Lots of reasons, but one: as a means of responding to threats. Most people see the virus as a threat, a solid majority of any country. In many countries, however, there is a vocal minority that sees a government response to the threat as the greater threat. These are the ones who are not capable of thinking it all of the way through. They see restrictions and immediately think "oh it will be this way forever" instead of understanding that the majority supports it because it is a temporary but necessary response to an emergency.

In any big disaster there are always those who can't wrap their heads around it, and dealing with them becomes a hassle for everyone else.

[lyman]

hospitals are supposedly getting paid more for treating Covid patients, and likely states get more fed aid,

Local news said there were families with members in assisted care in Colo. Who died during this crisis. They were told the causes of death were other than COVID19, but when they got the death certificates, the cause of death was changed by the health dept (local or state unknown) to COVID.
Who and how would benefit from this?

[clintonhater]

We have the right to expect the gov't to take the necessary steps to ensure the country has what is needed to meet an emergency that threatens this country.

Except when "the gov't" is under the absolute control of one party, which places maintaining its strangle hold on power above all other considerations. The one & only "necessary step" that would have stopped this epidemic in its tracks was the same step taken when it was discovered in China: QUARANTINE! But if your first priority is maintaining power, you don't alienate the people who gave it to you, which is why the obvious step of imposing a quarantine on NYC (as Trump proposed, for which he was vilified) was never even considered by the State Dictator of NY.

[togor]

Except when "the gov't" is under the absolute control of one party, which places maintaining its strangle hold on power above all other considerations. The one & only "necessary step" that would have stopped this epidemic in its tracks was the same step taken when it was discovered in China: QUARANTINE! But if your first priority is maintaining power, you don't alienate the people who gave it to you, which is why the obvious step of imposing a quarantine on NYC (as Trump proposed, for which he was vilified) was never even considered by the State Dictator of NY.

If I understand you, you are arguing that draconian (as in shoot-on-sight) measures should have been applied within a perimeter of NYC (really just a line dividing the state since NJ PA etc. are a different juristiction), while leaving upstate NY unimpeded. And you are arguing for this on the basis that it would have been the most effective policy for saving lives, not simply the least inconvenient for you.

[clintonhater]

And you are arguing for this on the basis that it would have been the most effective policy for saving lives, not simply the least inconvenient for you.

Absolutely--it worked in Wuhan, didn't it? Without anyone being shot on sight! Roadblocks on the major arteries (there are only a few out of the metro area) would have prevented the vast majority of law-abiding residents from even attempting to break the quarantine. "Shoot on sight" only the dope-dealers who spread out all over the NE from the Eastern hub of drug-trafficking, NYC.

Reserve "draconian" for forcing most of the population of a large state, not merely a city, to loose their jobs (except for gov't workers, of course!) & businesses.

[PWC]

hospitals are supposedly getting paid more for treating Covid patients, and likely states get more fed aid,

Had not heard that, but if we could follow the money, it makes sense.

[togor]

Absolutely--it worked in Wuhan, didn't it? Without anyone being shot on sight! Roadblocks on the major arteries (there are only a few out of the metro area) would have prevented the vast majority of law-abiding residents from even attempting to break the quarantine. "Shoot on sight" only the dope-dealers who spread out all over the NE from the Eastern hub of drug-trafficking, NYC.

Reserve "draconian" for forcing most of the population of a large state, not merely a city, to loose their jobs (except for gov't workers, of course!) & businesses.

So in other words civil liberties are paramount, except when they aren't.

The thing is, the legal basis for doing the thing that you are advocating doesn't exist, and if it did sorta exist in a grey area, people of your general political philosophy are currently arguing in both the court of law and public opinion to do away with that power.

In other words, at the 5% mark in this outbreak you can't be simultaneously for opening up the entire country and not opening it up. You also never had enough people to man the barricades around NYC 24/7 across the tri-state area. So what did the state governors do? Shelter-in-place region-wide, which did knock down the rate, significantly. Yes you can argue that they reacted late but damn so did the GOP so enough of that. Correct me if I'm wrong but the guy who refuses to wear a mask or practice social distancing keeps coming up with reasons to argue that this is someone else's responsibility.

[clintonhater]

You also never had enough people to man the barricades around NYC 24/7 across the tri-state area.

40,000 in NYPD, plus a huge force of State Troopers (hard to drive 5 mileS without seeing one), plus Sheriff's Deputies---there were MORE than enough to man every barricade in depth, with plenty of backup.

[togor]

40,000 in NYPD, plus a huge force of State Troopers (hard to drive 5 mileS without seeing one), plus Sheriff's Deputies---there were MORE than enough to man every barricade in depth, with plenty of backup.

Dreaming, for reasons already given--legality, plus they can't afford to pull NYPD out of their city patrols. Seriously, where would they put the people who refuse to turn around at the checkpoint? Just let the roads clog? What happens to essential commerce, including all the essential meds coming out of NYC needed to keep the old and sick of rural NY alive?

It would be a complete sh*tshow. Statewide shelter-in-place made infinitely more sense.

[lyman]

ask Florida, they supposedly have checkpoints at the Ga border

[clintonhater]

Seriously, where would they put the people who refuse to turn around at the checkpoint?

An absurd straw-man argument: even in Wuhan, the quarantine never applied to ESSENTIAL travel & commerce.

But NO problem finding room for the crazy handful who might prefer hand-cuffs to turning around; except that after notice was given of the roadblocks, how many would choose to take on the Troopers?