At The Public Range Today

[togor]

Went to a public range this AM, with my son. Out in a rural area, pretty low-key. At the 10 yd pistol range, an older guy had a modern Colt Single-Action Army that he was playing around with, shooting up some old handloads. There was also a woman in her early 30's down at the end, pounding away with her Glock 22, obviously a LEO. And at the other end was a younger guy shooting off hand with AR carbine with a break on it. Looked like he could hold a 6" group at 10 yards....congrats on that I guess....but the blast wave was no fun. Good thing he ran out of ammo.

Anyhow, got to talking to the guy with the Colt after we'd finished shooting and the lady had left. He said when he first got there, he recognized the lady cop as one from a nearby city who had written him up for driving 45 in a 45 zone. No typo there, and he tried to talk her out of the ticket, but she wasn't having any of it. So he took a day off from work, went to traffic court, where the judge said..."hey that's a 45 zone what gives?" to an empty chair, as the cop didn't bother to show. Case dismissed, but geeze.

He's a local guy to the range I think, and he told another story about how a week earlier at the 100 yd section a guy was dumping mag after mag of hot brass onto the shooters on the adjacent benches. Most guys understand the deal with autoloaders, and there's only so many benches down at the right end of the line. And ranges are busy these days. But one of the adjacent shooters apparently wasn't ready for the cascade of hot brass and said "hey buddy do you mind, maybe a heads-up first?" which got some blowback about rights, etc. Most people at ranges are extremely civil and cooperative, for obvious reasons, but apparently not this guy. So someone says (unwisely IMO) "should we call the cops?" to which the mag-dumper replies by pulling out his shield and saying "I AM the cops!".

At that point the Colt SAA guy (who is telling me the story) pipes up by saying, "hey buddy, if you're wondering why relations between police and the public are a bit strained these days, this moment right here is a good example". Perhaps chagrined, the cop dumped a couple more mags then cleared out, leaving it for someone else to police up his targets and his brass. The guy telling me these stories puts it to ego, the idea that once you get the shield, you can't admit to being wrong. It's a plausible theory, but in my book the best plan is to just get the traffic stop over ASAP with minimal damage. Arguing only makes it worse. On the other hand, if you're off-duty, then just be a normal guy.

Oh and on the way from the pistol line back to the parking lot, there was a group (not social distancing) of young people waving their pistols out of the cases, not bothering to get to the line before uncasing their weapons. One of the nice things about private ranges is that people have to follow the rules or lose privileges. But this is a public range in the boon docks with no supervision so anything goes.

BTW, the Yugo M57 is a sweet pistol! Inexpensive, accurate, easy to control, but the 7.62 Tokarev ammo is a bit hard to come by right now.

[S.A. Boggs]

This is exactly why I now have my own range.
Sam

[togor]

I could shoot at home, have the room but prefer not to advertise.

[S.A. Boggs]

In regards to the cop not showing I would have asked for a continuance and also ask the judge if he would consider having her placed in contempt of court for not appearing. She is an officer of the court and this show's contempt for the judges office and dignity of his robe. Some cops are assigned to stand in for other's and again I would have requested the issuing office be present for questioning.
Prosecutors hate this to happen.
Sam

[m1ashooter]

Thanks for the good range report. My range has portable plywood shield that us auto loaders use next to our benches to contain the brass. I find it unpleasant also to shoot next to a guy with a brake.

[Art]

There was also a woman in her early 30's down at the end, pounding away with her Glock 22, obviously a LEO.......

Anyhow, got to talking to the guy with the Colt after we'd finished shooting and the lady had left. He said when he first got there, he recognized the lady cop as one from a nearby city who had written him up for driving 45 in a 45 zone. No typo there, and he tried to talk her out of the ticket, but she wasn't having any of it. So he took a day off from work, went to traffic court, where the judge said..."hey that's a 45 zone what gives?" to an empty chair, as the cop didn't bother to show. Case dismissed, but geeze.

He's a local guy to the range I think, and he told another story about how a week earlier at the 100 yd section a guy was dumping mag after mag of hot brass onto the shooters on the adjacent benches. Most guys understand the deal with autoloaders, and there's only so many benches down at the right end of the line. And ranges are busy these days. But one of the adjacent shooters apparently wasn't ready for the cascade of hot brass and said "hey buddy do you mind, maybe a heads-up first?" which got some blowback about rights, etc. Most people at ranges are extremely civil and cooperative, for obvious reasons, but apparently not this guy. So someone says (unwisely IMO) "should we call the cops?" to which the mag-dumper replies by pulling out his shield and saying "I AM the cops!".

At that point the Colt SAA guy (who is telling me the story) pipes up by saying, "hey buddy, if you're wondering why relations between police and the public are a bit strained these days, this moment right here is a good example". Perhaps chagrined, the cop dumped a couple more mags then cleared out, leaving it for someone else to police up his targets and his brass. The guy telling me these stories puts it to ego, the idea that once you get the shield, you can't admit to being wrong. It's a plausible theory, but in my book the best plan is to just get the traffic stop over ASAP with minimal damage. Arguing only makes it worse. On the other hand, if you're off-duty, then just be a normal guy.

I doubt you were here when John Kepler was posting on this site but this stuff could have well been written by him, and quite a few of the other hard right wing old timers. I think John would have been even more caustic It's probably the only thing you and he would have agreed on. I've been on this forum for quite a spell and the one thing that hasn't changed is "I detest cops stories." John posted dumb cop stories, including dumb cop on the range stories every chance he got.

Since you used the word "Shield" I figure you aren't a southern boy. Maybe things are just different here in Texas but I've shared public and private ranges with quite a few active and retired LEOs, including at the members only gun club I belong to now and never have had an experience similar to the ones you and Mr. Kepler described at every opportunity. There is plenty of range stupidity to go around though, regardless of who does it. I suppose I've just been lucky, or maybe Texas cops are a bit different (though I doubt it.)

The warrior class, both military and police, is a necessary evil that exists because people won't behave. Until there's a second coming that will not change.

The "Defund the Cops Movement" should please both you and Mr. Kepler. I think its interesting that the anti cop guys are starting to get their wish, at least in cities like Portland, New York, Seattle, Austin and Minneapolis and Baltimore. I, for one, am going to be really interested to see how it works out.

Cops not showing up in court isn't that uncommon, and SA Boggs is right, whatever the reason judges and prosecutors find it annoying. Not showing up does not endear the cop to either but their bosses do hear about it, especially if it happens more than once.

[Major Tom]

Well, Togor, if your hero Biden gets elected you won't have that scenario at the range for long and you will probably smile when they confiscate your guns!

[rayg]

Togor says...There was also a woman in her early 30's down at the end, POUNDING away with her Glock 22, obviously a LEO. And at the other end was a younger guy shooting off hand with AR carbine with a break on it. Looked like he could hold a 6" group at 10 yards....congrats on that I guess....but the blast wave was no fun. Good thing he ran out of ammo.

Anyhow, got to talking to the guy with the Colt after we'd finished shooting and the lady had left. He said when he first got there, he recognized the lady cop as one from a nearby city who had written him up for driving 45 in a 45 zone.

The guys BS stories.. 45 in a 45 zone...Never happened as would never get past the supervisor..hot brass also..
I said this before and will say it again..There is some reason Togor has a hard on for cops..as all he does is post negative stories including as many online stories as he can find... We can only guess why! LOL....

[Roadkingtrax]

So he didn't "police" his brass and trash?

[S.A. Boggs]

1943 South Pacific:

Marines are watching a film outdoors, a detective movie. In the opening scene a woman walks onstage and confronts another woman. In the woman's hand is a Colt auto and she plants several rounds in the other woman. As the woman stands over the dead body a lone voice is heard from the back of the Marines, "Dammit lady! Police your brass and get off the firing point!"...Laughter erupts!!!
Sam

[togor]

Well Art,

Actually I get on well with law enforcement. My encounters fall into the occasional traffic stop (not so many anymore), and when I see something around here, like a crippled deer maimed in a car collision, suffering in the ditch, or a car in the parking lot of the nearby public lands, unattended for a week. Or coming back into the country through the CBP checkpoint at the airport. In all cases I take the practical view....they're on the job, let them get on with it and be on my way. I'm yet to personally encounter a situation where I saw an up side to arguing with the cops. Other people have a different story to tell.

Cops are as human as everyone else, but the difference is that they can bring down all kinds of force to turn a grey area into black & white in their favor. As you say that is just part of the deal of having police, just like auto-immune diseases in humans are one consequence of having kick-ass immune systems that allow us to live 80 years or more on the planet. That said, when they're off the job, they should just act like regular people. That hardly seems too much to ask.

I remember Mr. Kepler. In his memory I'll tell another story, of a petty dictator working for Customs and Border Protection. Before they rolled out the declarations kiosks, they used to hand out these blue customs forms on the flight back to the USA, on which you make declarations. Well it's an airplane so people are filling them out with whatever is handy--pencil or pen, so its legible. I've done them many times in pencil, no problem, and nothing to declare from a weeklong work trip. Well this one time I get to the front of the line (gotta stand *behind* that line until they call for you), get called up, and the guy, maybe age 30, says "you need to fill this out in pen". Breaking my own rule to not haggle with these guys, and feeling the pressure of a tight connection, I say "news to me, pencil has always worked in the past." I'm also wondering if I even have a pen!

He slides a blank form to me, and who knows, maybe he read my jet-lagged body language which said "this is SUCH chickensh*t" he also slid me a pen and didn't send me to the back of the line, instead pointing me to the adjacent booth (currently closed), saying "fill it out there". So I did, then stood there politely, at attention, once it was done. He eventually called me back, saw there was nothing to declare, I bit my tongue, and was on my way.

As a former LEO I suppose it's easy to tell us that petty emperors in law enforcement are just something the public has to live with. But the bureaucrats at the DMV can say the same thing, or politicians, or ministers. As much training as people get, it shouldn't be hard to put in a slide that says "DON'T BE A PETTY TYRANT IN YOUR DEALING WITH THE PUBLIC" with the expectation that employees follow it. In other words, the chance to act like royalty should not be a perk of any government job.

[rayg]

[QUOTE=togor;593560]Well Art,

Actually I get on well with law enforcement.

Well you could have fooled me! As it seems like you go out of your way to find and post any negative incidents involving the police constantly. And I mentioned that to you about it before.

[Roadkingtrax]

Sounds like the guy was an a$$hole. The cop made it known he was law enforcement. That makes him an a$$hole cop.

Every profession has them. Public employees are not beyond reproach.

[togor]

Well you could have fooled me! As it seems like you go out of your way to find and post any negative incidents involving the police constantly. And I mentioned that to you about it before.

I think you're too sensitive to criticism of cops. Pointing out where they come up short doesn't mean someone wants to do away with the function. Every job needs to stay current with the times. If you're going to argue that it's up to society to live in the way that is convenient for the police then I'm going to tell you that is the very definition of a police state and ass backwards wrong.

[S.A. Boggs]

I doubt you were here when John Kepler was posting on this site but this stuff could have well been written by him, and quite a few of the other hard right wing old timers. I think John would have been even more caustic It's probably the only thing you and he would have agreed on. I've been on this forum for quite a spell and the one thing that hasn't changed is "I detest cops stories." John posted dumb cop stories, including dumb cop on the range stories every chance he got.

Since you used the word "Shield" I figure you aren't a southern boy. Maybe things are just different here in Texas but I've shared public and private ranges with quite a few active and retired LEOs, including at the members only gun club I belong to now and never have had an experience similar to the ones you and Mr. Kepler described at every opportunity. There is plenty of range stupidity to go around though, regardless of who does it. I suppose I've just been lucky, or maybe Texas cops are a bit different (though I doubt it.)

The warrior class, both military and police, is a necessary evil that exists because people won't behave. Until there's a second coming that will not change.

The "Defund the Cops Movement" should please both you and Mr. Kepler. I think its interesting that the anti cop guys are starting to get their wish, at least in cities like Portland, New York, Seattle, Austin and Minneapolis and Baltimore. I, for one, am going to be really interested to see how it works out.

Cops not showing up in court isn't that uncommon, and SA Boggs is right, whatever the reason judges and prosecutors find it annoying. Not showing up does not endear the cop to either but their bosses do hear about it, especially if it happens more than once.

Thank you for affirming what I stated.
Sam