The Aircraft Carrier War

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  • Art
    Senior Member, Deceased
    • Dec 2009
    • 9256

    #1

    The Aircraft Carrier War

    There has only been one aircraft carrier war, World War II in the Pacific where two roughly equal Carrier fleets fought each other in six major battles between the Spring of 1942 and the Fall of 1944. This will take the form of a series of posts on the ships, the aircraft and the men. and the battles. It's going to be in thumbnails of course.

    One thing is important to the outcome. The Japanese didn't just have to win every battle, they had to win every battle decisively. No close, wins, not even too many not close wins and they knew it. The Americans had to be forced to terms within a year, preferably six months and to do that the Japanese would have to administer some hellacious wins.
    Last edited by Art; 02-16-2022, 04:28.
  • Art
    Senior Member, Deceased
    • Dec 2009
    • 9256

    #2
    The Ships, Japanese

    The ships here all saw action in 1942. More would be added later in time for the 1944 battles and others would be completed after the Japanese Naval Air Arm had ceased to exist and bobbed around in the Sea of Japan under regular attack or were expended as fast transports.

    The British invented the Aircraft Carrier, they also invented virtually every major innovation including the arrestor gear, angled deck, mirrored landing system, ski jump assist for loaded VSTOL aircraft and on and on. But...to them for a long time the carrier was a scout. It only later became a true weapons platform.

    The Japanese, denied new capital ship tonnage, by naval treaties cast about for a way to catch up. They had built an experimental carrier in 1922, the Hosho of 7420 tons, with a capacity of 11 aircraft and a speed of 25 knots so they had a bit of a handle on what they might need. The Tactical unit was to be the fast carrier task force (Kido Butai) which would be armed with bombers and fighters projecting them over long distances at high speed to engage targets on land and sea.

    Thanks to the treaties all major nations had hulls from battleships and battlecruisers on had scheduled to be scrapped. These hulls had the advantage of being large, sometimes very large, but their capital ship origins sometimes limited their aircraft capacity depending on the state of completion when converted

    Oh, to be truly effective as a fleet unit a speed of at least 26 knots was needed, some of these converted ships, and the Japanese converted a lot, were marginal on speed.

    These are the ships that fought in the 1942 battles in order of appearance excepting Hosho of course. Only heavy CV and light CVL ships are included, no escorts, CVE. Post 1942 ships will be added in a later post.

    CV Akagi, converted battlecruiser 1927
    41,300 tons
    31 knots
    91 aircraft

    CV Kaga, converted battleship 1928
    28 knots
    45,541 tons
    90 Aircraft

    CVL Ryujo 1929
    29 knots
    12,732 tons
    38 Aircraft

    CV Soryu Class 1937-39
    Hiryu
    34 knots
    18,880 tons
    71-73 Aircraft

    CVL Hosho Class 28 knots, converted sea plane tenders
    Zuiho
    30 aircraft
    11262 tons

    CV Shokaku Class, 34 knots 1941
    Zuikaku
    29,000 tons
    34 knots
    84 aircraft

    CVL Ryuho 1942 Coverted sub tender
    13,360 tons
    26 knots
    31 aircraft

    CV Hiyo class, 1942 converted ocean liners
    Jun'yo
    26,949 tons
    26 knots
    53 aircraft

    8 CV, 5 CVL
    Last edited by Art; 02-26-2022, 07:29.

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    • Art
      Senior Member, Deceased
      • Dec 2009
      • 9256

      #3
      The American Ships available in 1942

      They usually were more efficient ships (with exceptions) carrying more aircraft on smaller displacements. The US used no CVL in the early war years.

      CV Lexington Class 1920-27 converted battlecruisers
      Saratoga
      37,000 tons
      34 knots
      90 aircraft

      CV Ranger 1930 (spent much of the war in the Atlantic)
      14578 tons
      29 knots
      86 aircraft

      CV Yorktown Class 1937-40
      Enterprise
      Hornet
      20,000 tons
      32 knots
      90 aircraft

      CV Wasp 1940
      15,000 tons
      29 knots
      90 Aircraft

      7 CV total

      The American deficiency in numbers of carriers would be an issue all through 1942
      Last edited by Art; 02-15-2022, 07:24.

      Comment

      • dryheat
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 10587

        #4
        The Brits invented all that? I'm not sure how I feel about the ski jump ramp takeoff.
        The only carrier war is for sure. I kind of wonder about any battle ships now a days.
        Do we even call them Battleships anymore? They had a big word for them back then. Started with a D.
        Last edited by dryheat; 02-15-2022, 07:20.
        If I should die before I wake...great,a little more sleep.

        Comment

        • Art
          Senior Member, Deceased
          • Dec 2009
          • 9256

          #5
          Originally posted by dryheat
          The Brits invented all that?
          They also invented the steam catapult.
          Last edited by Art; 02-15-2022, 07:28.

          Comment

          • jon_norstog
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2009
            • 3896

            #6
            Originally posted by Art
            There has only been one aircraft carrier war, World War II in the Pacific where two roughly equal Carrier fleets fought each other in six major battles between the Spring of 1942 and the Fall of 1944. This will take the form of a series of posts on the ships, the aircraft and the men. It's going to be in thumbnails of course.

            One thing is important to the outcome. The Japanese didn't just have to win every battle, they had to win every battle decisively. No close, wins, not even not close wins and they knew it. The Americans had to be forced to terms within a year, preferably six months and to do that the Japanese would have to administer some hellacious wins.
            Supposedly Yamamoto told the government that he could attack the US, but if he did they had six months to win the war. If they didn't do that they would lose. I once found a "Navy League" magazine from 1940 with an editorial spread urging the Navy to build as many BBs as as possible, soon as possible, and not a word about carriers. They were lobbying Congress pretty hard. Fortunately they didn't get their way.

            jn

            Comment

            • Art
              Senior Member, Deceased
              • Dec 2009
              • 9256

              #7
              The Aircraft - Japanese

              The Nakajima B5N Kate Carrier Attack Plane
              Crew: 3 - Pilot, Navigator-Aircraft Commander-Bombardier, Radio Operator -Gunner
              Speed: 235 MPH
              Range: 600 miles
              Armament: One or two 7.7 mm Machine Guns firing forward. 1- 7.7 mm Lewis Gun rear. 1 Type 91 Torpedo, or 1 - 1760 pound A.P. bomb, or 2 - 250 pound bombs, or 6 - 132 pound bombs.

              The best aircraft of its type in the first half of 1942, and at least adequate through 1943; though the Japanese were already working on its replacement. Like most Japanese aircraft it did suffer from flamibility. It can not be mentioned without talking about the Type 91 Torpedo it carried and was modified throughout the war; stable, reliable, with a shallow drop depth and capable of being dropped at the top speed of the aircraft from over 300 feet, like the "Long Lance" it was in a class by itself. All other torpedo bombers were tied to some variation of the 100 - 100- 1,000 rule mandating a drop at 100 mph, at 100 feet at 1,000 yards.

              The Aichi D3Y "Val"
              Crew: 2 - Pilot, Radio Operator/Gunner
              Speed: 270 MPH
              Range: 840 miles
              Armament: 2 7.7 mm firing forward, 1 7.7 Lewis Gun rear. Bombs 1- 550 lb bomb and 2 - 132 pound bombs (optional)

              Because of its ruggedness and maneuverabilty the Val was sometimes used in the Combat Air Patrol (CAP.) In 1942 the Japanese were looking to replace it because of its relatively light bomb load. Like its counterpart the American SBD Dauntless it would sink more enemy ships, alone or with others, than any other navy aircraft type.

              The A6M2 (Type 0 Model 21) Zero Zeke
              Speed: 330 mph (345 mph W.E.P.)
              Rate of climb: 3,100 ft/min
              Range: 900 miles
              Armament: 2 7-7 mm machine guns, 2 - 20 mm cannon.

              The best carrier fighter of 1942 by a wide margin and capable of competing with any land based opponent, it's extreme range made it the first true long range escort fighter. This extreme range also gave it a very long "loiter" time in the CAP. It was not without flaws, very fragile it had a never exceed speed of only 370 mph. A note on War Emergency Power (W.E.P.) Fighters in WWII had the capability of temporarily increasing top speed by over revving the engine or injecting something, usually an alcohol mixture into the fuel. This could only be done for short periods and was closely monitored as it was damaging to the engine and required increased maintenance. Japanese fighter aircraft top speed was always shown by them as maximum combat power even though W.E.P. was available on all of them.

              In addition both sides used numbers of obsolescent or sometimes downright obsolete in combat in 1942. One example is the A5M Claude fixed under carriage carrier fighter which was being fielded in limited numbers on carriers and and larger numbers on land bases well into 1942.

              Japanese naval aircraft had a range advantage with their aircraft which gave him a first punch advantage should they find you first for the entire war.
              Last edited by Art; 02-16-2022, 04:31.

              Comment

              • Art
                Senior Member, Deceased
                • Dec 2009
                • 9256

                #8
                Originally posted by jon_norstog
                Supposedly Yamamoto told the government that he could attack the US, but if he did they had six months to win the war. If they didn't do that they would lose. I once found a "Navy League" magazine from 1940 with an editorial spread urging the Navy to build as many BBs as as possible, soon as possible, and not a word about carriers. They were lobbying Congress pretty hard. Fortunately they didn't get their way.

                jn
                He almost surely said words to that effect. But once war was on he was all in.

                Comment

                • bruce
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 3759

                  #9
                  It is what it was. The US was not prepared for war. The Japs had already been at war in China which provided them an excellent opportunity to develop equipment/tactics, etc. Their pilot development was inadequate to replace losses. Their various types of airplanes were not so hot once the US began to develop up to date planes. Lack of self-sealing gas tanks and armor forced the Japs to pay a high price in unsustainable losses. There really was no excuse for the poor quality torpedos first used by the US. Got to wonder why development was not informed by examination of Jap and German torpedos. There is more but this is a start. Sincerely. bruce.
                  " Unlike most conservatives, libs have no problem exploiting dead children and dancing on their graves."

                  Comment

                  • Art
                    Senior Member, Deceased
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 9256

                    #10
                    Originally posted by bruce
                    It is what it was. Got to wonder why development was not informed by examination of Jap and German torpedos. There is more but this is a start. Sincerely. bruce.
                    Japanese torpedoes were a closely guarded state secret. We actually knew a torpedo could be oxygen fueled but the fear of the hazards involved kept us from making one. Our "surprise" at the torpedoes was fueled by, among many other things, racism, as well as the Japanese wisely understating the performance of almost every thing they could. We were so in denial about it we discounted their capabilities for almost a year after encountering them. It might have helped if we had actually tested our torpedoes but made an executive decision that they were too expensive to expend in tests !!! Then to add insult to injury the Navy Bureau of Ordnance refused to even consider defects for almost a year blaming all problems on "operator error" and prohibiting troubleshooting.

                    I had a friend who once told me a Long Lance ship launched (our name for it when we figured it out) compared to ours destroyer torpedoes at the start of the war like a JDAM to a firecracker.
                    Last edited by Art; 02-16-2022, 12:15.

                    Comment

                    • lyman
                      Administrator - OFC
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 11269

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Art
                      Japanese torpedoes were a closely guarded state secret. We actually knew a torpedo could be oxygen fueled but the fear of the hazards involved kept us from making one. Our "surprise" at the torpedoes was fueled by, among many other things, racism, as well as the Japanese wisely understating the performance of almost every thing they could. It might have helped if we had actually tested our torpedoes but made an executive decision that they were too expensive to expend in tests !!! Then to add insult to injury the Navy Bureau of Ordnance refused to even consider defects for almost a year blaming all problems on "operator error" and prohibiting troubleshooting.
                      we almost literally torpedoed ourselves early in the war

                      Comment

                      • Art
                        Senior Member, Deceased
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 9256

                        #12
                        The Aircraft, American

                        The Douglass TBD "Devastator"
                        Crew: 3, Pilot, Torpedo Officer/Navigator, Radioman Gunner
                        Range: 455 miles
                        Speed: 206 miles per hour.
                        Armament: 1 forward firing .30 caliber machine gun, one .30 machine gun in the rear cockpit.
                        I Mk 13 Torpedo, or one 1,000 pound bomb, or2 500 pound bombs, or 12 100 pound bombs

                        This was a very advanced aircraft in 1935 when first delivered but by 1942 was outclassed by almost everything, slow, sluggish and with a comparatively light payload it was retired in mid 1942 due partly to its obsolescence but mostly due to all most all of them having been lost in combat.

                        The Graumann TBF "Avenger'
                        Crew: 3, essentially the same as the TBD
                        Range: 900 miles
                        Armament: 1 - .30 cal. mg nose, 2 - .50 cal mg wings, 1 - .50 mg dorsal turret, 1 - .30 mg ventral tunnel.
                        1 Torpedo, Mk 13 or anti submarine homing "Fido" most common
                        or 2,000 pounds of bombs.
                        8 3.5" or 5" High Velocity Aerial Rockets
                        Bomb and torpedo payload carried internally.

                        From the outhouse to the penthouse. The gold standard of torpedo planes, almost 10,000 built. The last user didn't retire them until 1960.

                        Douglass SBD "Dauntless."
                        Crew: 2 pilot, radio operator/gunner
                        Speed: 255 mph.
                        Range: 300 miles
                        Armament: 2 - 50 cal machine guns in the engine cowling. One or two .30 caliber machine guns in the rear cockpit.
                        2,250 pounds of bombs in various configurations

                        Interestingly it had a second set of controls minus the landing gear let down in the rear cockpit. Some pilots would regularly let the rear seat guy take the controls for a while. More rear seater than you would think eventually became pilots.

                        the best carrier borne dive bomber pre 1944 and a case could be made for all time. Like its counter part the Japanese D3Y it destroyed more Japanese shipping than any other type. It performed very well re Enforcing the CAP with some pilots actually being transferred to fighters. As a pure dive bomber only the Stuka with its 90 degree dive and automatic pull out was probably its equal and you didn't see those on ships, though the Stuka sure sank a lot of ships.

                        Grauman F4F "Wildcat"
                        Crew: 1
                        Speed: 331 mph
                        Climb: 2,303 ft. min
                        Range: 700 miles
                        Armament: 4 - .50 cal. machine guns.

                        Grossly inferior on paper to its early war opponents in the pacific, it was especially handicapped by an abysmal climb rate. BUT a combination of ruggedness, fine piloting, and tactics allowed it to mostly hold its own. Even after superior types appeared it retained a niche on escort carriers and soldiered on for the whole war.

                        Range = Combat radius for all planes, both sides.
                        Last edited by Art; 03-09-2022, 03:06.

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                        • barretcreek
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2013
                          • 6065

                          #13
                          So are we preparing to fight the 'last war' except with missiles?

                          Comment

                          • jon_norstog
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 3896

                            #14
                            Originally posted by barretcreek
                            So are we preparing to fight the 'last war' except with missiles?
                            Not mentioning any names, but I think a certain country has been working for 30+ years on ways to take out our CVAs.

                            jn

                            Comment

                            • togor
                              Banned
                              • Nov 2009
                              • 17610

                              #15
                              A terrific book from both the US and Japanese perspectives on Midway, which was the decisive carrier battle of the early war.

                              https://www.amazon.com/Shattered-Swo...s%2C162&sr=8-1

                              Not that it has to be bought from Jeff Bezos of course.

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