French La Marseillaise and military songs

**Phloating Phlasher** · 06-13-2023, 03:13

"Mimi" Matthieu!
My favorite French singer!Tiny little thing but with a huge voice!

**pcox** · 06-13-2023, 05:56

The Foreign Legion's hats are worse than the birth control hats we were issued in 1966. If you had that hat on, you ain't getting laid.

**Art** · 06-14-2023, 05:12

Every now and again the French think about replacing "La Marseillaise" or at least changing it because of all the blood and gore references. That thought never goes far though. The emotional investment the French have in culture will surely prevent that

.

pcox: About the hat, there was a time during the 19th century when the Kepi was quite the fashion in world militaries. We adopted a variation of it in the 1850s that wasn't quite as ugly and didn't get rid of it until most of the 19th century was gone. That hat is only slightly less useful for its intended purpose than another French military invention that got even more widespread use...the beret. At least you could add a cloth at the back of the Kepi to keep the sun off your neck.

Speaking of ugly, military nurses, when they wore the military variation of the traditional white nurses dress, referred to them as "BCDs," or "birth control dresses"

. They were seen as not only ugly but non functional as well.

**rayg** · 06-14-2023, 05:17

I love the slow march the French use!

**dryheat** · 06-14-2023, 08:41

That is a pretty violent song.

**Phloating Phlasher** · 06-14-2023, 10:47

The revolution "La grande terreur" was pretty violent too.
Heads was going to roll.

**barretcreek** · 06-14-2023, 01:40

Originally posted by dryheat

That is a pretty violent song.

Ain't about joining the country club.

Speaking of headgear, NavSci instructor told the story on his midshipman cruise to the Med one of the chiefs told his girlfriend the 'guys with the blue band' around their caps had syphilis.

**Vern Humphrey** · 06-17-2023, 12:39

Originally posted by Art

At least you could add a cloth at the back of the Kepi to keep the sun off your neck.

That cloth is British, not French, and is called a "Havelock" after the officer who originated it.

They should have done what the Americans did following the Mexican War, and adopted broad-brimmed campaign hats.

**Art** · 06-19-2023, 03:51

Originally posted by Vern Humphrey

That cloth is British, not French, and is called a "Havelock" after the officer who originated it.

They should have done what the Americans did following the Mexican War, and adopted broad-brimmed campaign hats.

Well, you are correct of course on the name. The hat is French and the "Havelock" is a modification to the variations of the French hat used by more than just the Brits. The Japanese used it through WII and so did we sometimes on our variations of the Kepi which we used long after the Mexican war The model 1858 "forage cap" was a "kepi" standard for infantry men during the Civil War, along with a lot of other varieties of headgear including brimmed hats including, but not limited to "slouch hats" which preferred by some units, especially cavalry. Brimmed hats, including slouch hats were always an option for officers. Long after the civil war Kepi style hats were still in use by some units up until the Spanish American war. Interestingly I suspect that slouch hats were probably worn by officers less than one would guess in the "Great Rebellion." For example James Longstreet is almost always shown in post Civil War depictions as wearing some variety of slouch hat but the only photograph I've seen of him in uniform with a hat shows him holding a kepi.

You are correct that a broad brimmed hat was/is the best solution and one that we never seemed to have used for long at a time. at least not universally. Cost and maintenance were probably issues. The baseball caps we wore when I was in were about as useless as a Kepi though surely cheaper, and a heck of a lot cheaper than the felt "Campaign Hat."

**Vern Humphrey** · 06-20-2023, 07:07

Originally posted by Art

Well, you are correct of course on the name. The hat is French and the "Havelock" is a modification to the variations of the French hat used by more than just the Brits. The Japanese used it through WII and so did we sometimes on our variations of the Kepi which we used long after the Mexican war The model 1858 "forage cap" was a "kepi" standard for infantry men during the Civil War, along with a lot of other varieties of headgear including brimmed hats including, but not limited to "slouch hats" which preferred by some units, especially cavalry. Brimmed hats, including slouch hats were always an option for officers. Long after the civil war Kepi style hats were still in use by some units up until the Spanish American war. Interestingly I suspect that slouch hats were probably worn by officers less than one would guess in the "Great Rebellion." For example James Longstreet is almost always shown in post Civil War depictions as wearing some variety of slouch hat but the only photograph I've seen of him in uniform with a hat shows him holding a kepi.

You are correct that a broad brimmed hat was/is the best solution and one that we never seemed to have used for long at a time. at least not universally. Cost and maintenance were probably issues. The baseball caps we wore when I was in were about as useless as a Kepi though surely cheaper, and a heck of a lot cheaper than the felt "Campaign Hat."

Yep, and now we wear berets. My first tour in Viet Nam, I was an adviser, and since the Viet Namese wore berets, we wore them -- you don't want to look "different" on the battlefield.

We'd come in from an operation with face and neck blistered, eyes bloodshot, scalp went and wrinkled and hair soaked with sweat -- what do you expect when you're running around in 99-degree heat and 99% humidity with a wool bag on your head?

I had a discussion with a Special Forces weenie and challenged him to justify the beret. He finally said you can roll it up and stick it under a shoulder strap when indoors.

I call this the "Beret Syndrome" -- adopting a piece of equipment whose sole virtue is it's convenient when you're NOT using it.

Later with US units I wore the "boonie hat" which is basically a modern adaptation of the campaign hat. On horseback these days, and for other outdoors activities, I wear a campaign hat -- usually a Model 1889.

French La Marseillaise and military songs

French La Marseillaise and military songs

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